Navigating a New Season of Ministry : Steve Bezner

Full-Text Transcript

Jason Daye
Hello, friends, and welcome to another insightful episode of FrontStage BackStage. I’m your host, Jason Daye. Each week, I have the privilege of sitting down with a trusted ministry leader, and we tackle a topic all in an effort to help you and ministry leaders just like you really thrive in both life and leadership. Now, if you’re joining us on YouTube, please give us a thumbs up and take a moment to drop your name and the name of your church in the comments below. We love getting to know our audience better, and we will be praying for you and your ministry. And whether you’re joining us on YouTube or your favorite podcast platform, please be sure to subscribe and to follow so you do not miss out on any of these great conversations. I’m excited because Steve Bezner is joining us today. Steve is a longtime pastor who now serves as an Associate Professor of Pastoral Ministry and Theology at Truett Seminary. His latest book is entitled Your Jesus is Too American. Super excited about today’s conversation. Steve, welcome to the show.

Steve Bezner
Hey, glad to be here today, Jason. Thanks so much for having me on.

Jason Daye
Yeah, brother, really excited about diving into this conversation today because we’re going to tackle a topic that every single one of us who has served in ministry has probably faced at some point, and that is when our season of ministry begins to shift, right? Maybe we’ve been pastoring in a particular locale for some time, and we feel that the Spirit is shifting us to another place, wherever that might be. And those can be exciting times. They can also be kind of challenging times, maybe even times of concern, because we have to, once again, trust where God is leading us. So, Steve, I’m excited to hear a bit of your story, and have you share a bit of your story, and then what has God been teaching you as this season of ministry has shifted for you? So, let’s start out, Steve. Tell us a little bit about your life in ministry.

Steve Bezner
Yeah, you bet. So, I’ve been a pastor for the last 30 years in some capacity or other. Most recently at a church in Houston, and was there for 12 years. For a variety of reasons, I ended up making a change very recently, and now have come on faculty at Truett Seminary at Baylor University. But I never really thought I would get out of pastoring. I thought that I’d be a pastor for all of my days. So, kind of this idea, this moment where we can really talk about this, I think is helpful, because I think that a lot of folks get surprised whenever the Lord brings transition into their life and ends up saying, okay, that assignment, your time there is complete, and it’s time to do something else. So, I’m really excited to have this opportunity to visit with you today, Jason.

Jason Daye
Yeah, Steve, and I can appreciate that, because sometimes when we’re in ministry, oftentimes, our identity is tied to what we’re doing, because we’re all in, right? And that’s one of the beautiful things about being in ministry, but that also can present a challenge, especially when there’s this transition time coming up in your ministry. So, talk to us, because you’ve shifted from being kind of behind the pulpit as a pastor, leading the flock that the Lord has entrusted to you, and now you’re shifting into teaching at a seminary. So, that’s obviously a little bit different. Talk to us a little bit about that identity piece and how God has been leading you through that.

Steve Bezner
Yeah, you bet. I think that whenever you’re a staff member versus a senior pastor, that’s also kind of one dynamic there. I don’t know exactly who is listening today or watching today, but I was certainly a student pastor at one time, and an associate pastor, and it is kind of your identity. But man, when you step into that lead role, I think it even becomes more all-consuming, because really, every relationship that you have is kind of seen through this filter of you being a sort of spiritual mediator in the lives of the people that you interact with. So, when you’re in the community, you’re Pastor Steve, because you’re in that capacity, and people, even whenever they introduce you to others, even friends that you have to say, Oh, well, this is Steve. He’s our pastor. Even though you’re their friend, there’s like this dual relationship, this layered relationship there. So really, in almost every circle that you run, you just find yourself identifying yourself as a pastor, talking about being a pastor. And I can’t speak for you, Jason, but I can freely say that, also, I began to notice in my own life that the way I felt about myself regularly was reflected in how I perceived that my church was doing in the things that I thought it ought to be doing. So, if numbers were up and we were having a great season of ministry, or whatever the criteria might be, I would find myself feeling pretty good about myself. Then, whenever things were not going so well, people were complaining, or numbers were not what I thought they ought to be, or we hadn’t seen anyone come to faith in a long time, then I would really begin to be down on myself. And so I knew that that wasn’t healthy, but I’m also able to freely confess that I was never able to completely disentangle that. What’s interesting is then, having stepped out of that role, it’s really been a healthy thing, I think, for me as a professor, because people don’t introduce me as their pastor anymore. So, it’s allowed me to say, well, what is my identity, just in Christ, not as a pastor, but just who am I, as a child of God who’s loved by the Lord, and to really do some deep heart work there, and I think that really, at base level, that’s where each of us need to start in the first place.

Jason Daye
Yeah, absolutely. So, Steve, let’s lean in a little bit on this because as wonderful and amazing as it is to be a pastor, to be a full time minister, there is this kind of connectivity, as you said, between not only what our vocation is, but then also the spiritual side of who we identify as, right? Because they’re much different than other vocations. They’re much more tightly tied together. So, Steve, talk to us a little bit about what it looks like to begin to disentangle that identity with the role, but at the same time holding on to and maybe even deepening our understanding of who we are as a child of God?

Steve Bezner
Yeah, one of the things that I do every morning, I’m sure you do as well, Jason. I have my time of prayer, reading scripture, getting alone with the Lord, and I keep my prayer list in the back of my Bible. And one of the things that I noticed when I began to go through this process of stepping out of being a lead pastor and into this professor role was that the first, I don’t know, 10-12 lines of my prayer list were prayer requests that I had for my church. So, I had listed things like faithfully preaching the gospel, seeing people come to faith in Christ, serving the poor on a regular basis, creating a culture of generosity, creating intentional community that’s supernatural, and all these kinds of things, which were great. And then I suddenly began to recognize it wasn’t that I didn’t want to pray those for the church anymore, but even my relationship with God was filtered through an identity centered around my activity on behalf of God, rather than simply enjoying his presence first and foremost. So, as I kind of drew a line in that prayer list and said, Okay, the first thing that I need to do is just focus in on who God is, enjoying his presence, remembering who he has made me. For me, over the years, Ephesians 1 has been kind of one of those texts that I’ve used to remind myself of who I am in Christ Jesus. Loved, chosen, predestined, lavished, etc, those kinds of things. I think that for those of us who are in ministry, a good and helpful exercise is to go back through those kinds of passages, Ephesians 1 or other passages that are central to us, instead of making our first activity in prayer to bring the church before the Lord, to bring our heart before the Lord. Now, I will tell you, in my prayer list, I did have that at other points, but this was a good reminder for me to take those concerns about my own heart, my own walk, my own sin struggles, and to put that first and foremost, so that whenever I get before the Lord, the first thing I’m doing is getting my heart right, listening to him, and really trying to walk with Him first.

Jason Daye
Yeah, I love that, Steve. And what a great reminder for all of us, regardless of if we’re in transition in ministry, or shifting seasons or not. But just that reminder that we are in Christ, and what does that mean for us? Before, as you said, we start going through the ministry filter, because oftentimes, it’s a challenge. Or at least, I personally found this as a challenge. Steve, you might resonate with this, that in pastoral ministry, oftentimes I’d come across something, I’d read something, I’d hear something. And rather than thinking about this as kind of a gift for Jason and for my walk, I’m immediately thinking about, okay, how can I share this with my people? Not that that’s a bad thing, but sometimes I think we miss out on just the things that God wants to pour into our own lives, right, Steve?

Steve Bezner
Absolutely, yeah. And I think that, yeah, whenever you’re the preacher, something happens. It was easy to think, Oh, this would be a great sermon illustration that I could use. Or whenever I would be in a conversation and I would hear someone say, oh, yeah, we did this at work, and this really worked out big, I would immediately think, Oh, how could I implement this in the staff, or whatever. And I think that stepping out of that gives you an opportunity to see that whenever God brings these things in your life, it might just be because he loves you and wants you to draw closer to Him and have a greater insight into his character, rather than you always feeling the pressure or the need to implement that from an organizational leader perspective.

Jason Daye
Hey, friends, just a quick reminder that we provide a free toolkit that complements today’s conversation. You can find this for this episode and every episode at PastorServe.org/network. In the toolkit, you’ll find a number of resources, including our Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. This growth guide includes insights pulled from today’s conversation, as well as reflection questions, so you and the ministry team at your local church can dig more deeply into this topic and see how it relates to your specific ministry context. Again, you can find it at PastorServe.org/network.

Jason Daye
Yeah, that’s so good. I love that, and it’s such a positive that God is teaching you through this season right now. What are some of the things that have felt hard, have felt maybe challenging, as you are shifting into this new season of ministry?

Steve Bezner
Yeah, I think that being a pastor is something that, I at least, have kind of held on to as a way to understand who I am, how it is that I move in the world, and how it is that I’m supposed to relate to God. So, as those stakes have been pulled out of the ground, and I’m in the process of putting a new set of stakes in the ground, I will confess, it’s been a little disorienting at times. We’re visiting churches right now. I haven’t really had the opportunity to visit a church in I don’t even know how long, as far as considering, am I going to become part of this church, right? When you’re pastoring, you walk into the room, and everyone wants to ask you a question, or clarify things. Hey, could we pray together about this? I have a question, a problem, or a counseling situation. We’ve been walking into church, sitting down, and a couple of people say, Hey, are you visiting? You know, that kind of thing, but it’s just a very different experience. Also, recognizing that it’s not my job to critique what happens in the worship gathering. So, just kind of getting an entirely different framework took a little bit of getting used to, but to be honest with you, one of the things that I was sharing with my wife, I didn’t realize how draining Sundays were until suddenly I wasn’t in that place. Then, to have the opportunity to get up, to have breakfast with my family, spend some time reading my Bible, maybe hanging out at the house with family, going to church together, and going to lunch together. Kind of like a great time of just family togetherness. I actually remarked to my wife, Oh, I can see why people would enjoy doing this. As a pastor, I’d be coming home at, I’d probably get back to the house about one o’clock. I usually tried to get to the church about 6 am, and I had had who knows how many personal interactions, how many decisions had been made, preached, and all that kind of stuff. And usually I would just fall into the bed and crash for a couple or three hours. And I enjoyed it because I enjoyed ministry. But it wasn’t a restorative experience. It wasn’t a moment where I walked away and felt like I had encountered God in a way that built me up. It was more of a draining experience. And so that’s been really encouraging for me to realize, wow, gathering together with God’s people can be a truly life-giving experience if we meet God with this identity as a child of God.

Jason Daye
Yeah, yeah. That’s good. It’s interesting to hear how God has been moving in your life and in shifting you into this new season. Talk to us a bit, Steve, because this is a challenge that I know I had when God shifted me from local church ministry to a different type of ministry. This idea of our calling and how our calling, on one hand, is very consistent, but on the other hand, a calling can be seasonal. So, how do you hold on to the idea of being called as a minister of the gospel when you may not be ministering from behind a pulpit?

Steve Bezner
No, that’s a great, great question. I can definitely remember when I was called into ministry. I can remember kind of having this experience with the Lord, knowing that that was the case. So, I think that I hold on to that, and I remember that. But, Jason, you probably have had experiences like this. There have been definite moments, and it’s hard to describe unless you’ve had an experience where we have known the Lord is taking us to this place, and then, when it was time to go, that the Lord was shutting it down. And I know that there have been, I mean, the people that we hear a lot about are people who stay at the same church for 30 years, 40 years, that kind of thing. And I think that those are great ministry careers, but I don’t necessarily think that we are required by the Lord to stay at the same post forever. Because I definitely could tell you that the church I was at previous to the one where I just left, we knew that the Lord had us do that, and then we knew that the Lord was telling us to be done. We know the Lord took us to Houston, and then I personally did not want to leave. I mean, we were having a great season. The church was super healthy, great staff culture, just amazing people. We were seeing all kinds of great things from the metric perspective. Had no desire to leave, but it was just clear that the Lord was saying, Okay, your time here is now done, and it’s on to the next thing for you. So through that, I think that in those seasons, you have to remember that God has called you to serve Him, and you just listen for whatever that new thing is that he wants you to do. So, I think when you talk about identity, there are certain things that I really love that God has put in my heart. And I’m sure the same thing for you, Jason, that no matter where you’ve been serving, you’ve probably in some way put those into operation. And that’s really been the case for me wherever I’ve been. I’ve ended up sort of in a mentor type role. I’ve ended up in a very kind of relational role, helping guide people from one place where they were to the place that I believe that the Lord would have for them. So, I’ve kind of worked in this guide sort of setting, no matter what sort of pastoral place I’ve been. And then, now that I’m going to be a seminary professor, I’m realizing, well, I’m going to still be leaning into this relational mentoring guide sort of identity that God has really put in my heart. So, the core identity as a child of God is not being a pastor. It’s really that God has put in my heart this calling to help guide people towards a kingdom relationship and to walking with him. I would imagine you probably have similar sort of experiences where you’re in different places, where different people are signing the paychecks, but you’re still probably reflecting the same core identity that God has inscribed on your heart, because it’s who God made you. You’re uniquely you, and you’ve got these unique gifts. So because of that, wherever God places you, it’s usually because he wants those gifts to be leveraged for a particular purpose, and at least that’s what my experience has been. I don’t know if that resonates with you.

Jason Daye
Yeah, absolutely, Steven. It’s just so cool because it’s such a testament to God’s faithfulness. It’s kind of almost funny in some ways, because we, in our human experience, might be thinking, Oh, but God, why aren’t you doing it this particular way? Whereas God knew what He was doing all along. Like, Steve, when God put that into your heart, that mentoring heart of yours, you know God knew that at some point he was going to shift your ministry to engage in that to an even deeper level. It is just the faithfulness of God, how he’s knitted us together, how he shaped us, how he’s wired us into people who are able to serve Him and serve His kingdom in the unique ways that make Steve, Steve, make Jason, Jason, or whomever is watching or listening along, who you happen to be. Whenever we think of this idea of transition, you are obviously transitioning at this point, talking about transitioning from local church ministry into seminary as a professor. And yet, over the course of your ministry, as you’ve alluded to, you have shifted one season pastoring one church to another season pastoring another church. When you think back to those transitions, Steve, within the pastoral ministry, what were some of the key things that you sensed that God was speaking into your life, kind of preparing you for that particular shift?

Steve Bezner
Yeah, I think that everybody’s experience is a little different. But a few things that were common for me along the way. It wasn’t always the thing that made the most sense, logically speaking, from a career trajectory, but it was something that the Lord really began to put in my heart. So I think that as you’re walking with God and you’re spending time with him, he’s going to put different desires in your heart. And I also would say that as those desires are placed there, wherever you’re serving, you’ll either have the opportunity to move towards those or you won’t. And one of the things that I’ve noticed over the years is that whenever I would begin to grow discontent, it wasn’t really because I wanted a new job, it was because I had this desire that God had put in me to do certain things, and the current role where I was serving, I wouldn’t be allowed to do that anymore. So there would sort of be this sense of there’s got to be something next. I just don’t know what it is, and usually I would be sensing that for a very long time. I mean, six months, a year, a couple of years, just kind of feeling that. And we, me and my wife, just firmly believe that when you’re feeling that, then you’re in that season that the Bible talks about, which is just waiting, and you’re waiting on God to make it very clear, because the truth of the matter is, I’m sure you’re like this, Jason. I think most pastors are. I’m pretty good at making things happen. I can feel that sense of okay, I don’t like this feeling, and I want to be able to have a different opportunity. So I could pick up the phone and start calling people. I could probably try to create an organization. I could try to get on job boards, or go hunt things down. But what we really began to discover was that as we felt that discontent, then it was just time to be still and wait on the Lord to say, Okay, here’s what’s next. As we did that, one of my friends who’s been a mentor to me in pastoring said, Just wait then for the Lord to release you, which never made sense to me. But what I think I discovered was that as we were in that season of waiting, whenever opportunities would arise, when they would come up, we would pray, if we felt the Lord giving the confirmation to step that way, there would also be a release from where we were. Okay, you’re done now. You can take this. If we did not feel that, not just excitement about what was ahead, but also a sense that God had said, yes, you’re now free to walk away and you’re done, then we would feel like, okay, we can move to that next post, whatever that might be. So, that’s been our experience over the years. I can honestly say that we never really anticipated leaving any of the places that the Lord has called us. We thought that we would stay the rest of our lives. But, as he has gone through that process, it’s kind of always taken that cycle of a little bit of discontent, season of waiting, and then him bringing something and releasing. And so that’s kind of been the process we’ve walked through over the years.

Jason Daye
At PastorServe, we love walking alongside pastors and ministry leaders just like you. If you want to learn more about how you can qualify for a complimentary coaching session with one of our trusted ministry coaches, please visit PastorServe.org/freesession. You don’t want to miss out on this opportunity. That’s PastorServe.org/freesession.

Jason Daye
Yeah, I love that. I love that. I smile as you’re sharing, Steve, because I resonate so much with what you’re saying. I’m sure many of you who are watching or listening along, if this sounds familiar, if you’ve sensed this or felt this yourself, drop in the comments below a little bit about your story. We’d love to hear that and be praying with you. And if you’re in the midst of maybe sensing some of that, we’d love to be praying along with you as well. But, Steve, the idea of waiting, I think, is such an important piece, right? Because pretty much probably all of us have awakened one Monday morning after a particularly wild Sunday or weekend, and felt like, oh my goodness, there’s gotta be something other than this, right? We’ve all lived that, if you’ve been in ministry for any time at all. But that idea, Steve, of like, okay, maybe God is stirring something in us, as you said, this idea of discontent. It may not necessarily be discontent with where we are, because, as you said, you felt like God was going to keep you there initially, forever. And that’s how we enter every, every one of our ministry roles, like, okay, we’re all in forever. But that idea of like, maybe there’s something else that God has for you. Maybe there’s something God’s stirring in your heart. Maybe what he’s brought you through during this particular season of ministry with this particular church or this particular ministry organization has been preparing you for something else, right? But that idea of then pausing and saying, Okay, God, I’m going to trust you with what that might look like, and when, the timing of that, and waiting on the Lord and allowing God to pour into you, to guide you, and to direct you. Because what’s so interesting, Steve, is that, and I know, just from talking with you, and I think this would be a great thing to hone in on a little bit is, as much as God is transitioning you, Steve, and your family from where you are pastoring in Houston to your new role at the seminary there at Truett, God is also preparing the Church in Houston for their transition, right? It’s not like God’s just picking up all these ministry leaders and shifting us around. God’s at work within his church and all of these local expressions of the Body of Christ. So, talk to us a little bit, Steve, about what that looks like, not only from our perspective as the pastors or ministry leaders that are going through transition, but then also what might that be for our church or the ministry that we are transitioning out of, that we’re shifting from into this new season?

Steve Bezner
I would say that for those of us who are pastors, the hope is that we dearly love the people we’re serving. And I know that the church that we just left, Houston Northwest in Houston. Gosh, we love that Church. We love those people so much. As it began to come into focus that the Lord was wrapping up our time there, I wanted to control the timetable. I wanted to, at first, just get out quick. And then later I thought, well, maybe I can drag my feet a little bit because I just don’t want to leave. And at the end of the day, I recognized that if I truly love this church, then I have to go on the timetable that God provides because he is working something else that I won’t be privy to, that will be for the benefit of that church. I think that if we’ll just operate from that position of love for the congregation we’re serving and trust the Lord when it’s time to make a change, let his timetable unfold at his particular pace. And when that happens, that’ll be what’s best for the church we’re leaving and for the church or the institutional organization we’re going to. So, I think that that’s part. The other piece, then, is for the congregation. Maybe, if you’re a congregate listening to this, also just to hear that if you can trust that your pastor listens to the Lord and walks with the Lord, when your pastor says, God is telling me it’s time to be done, I can speak from experience and tell you most people aren’t excited about that. They’re sad to see their pastor go, and even sometimes will try to talk you out of it, or say, Don’t leave. And I would say, if you believe and trust that they hear from the Lord, then release them, because that means that God has something good ahead. Now, sure, we could all tell horror stories about times when people weren’t listening to the Lord or tried to force things, etc. Those are not the best. I’m not talking about that. But, if you believe your pastor is walking with the Lord, listening to the Lord, and is following the Lord’s timetable, then I truly believe that means that God has something good in store for His church that will come next.

Jason Daye
Yeah, that’s so wise. That’s so well said. Steve, as we’re kind of winding down, this conversation was super helpful. I hope for those of you watching or listening, as you maybe find yourself in the midst of transition, or inevitably, probably going to bump up ministry shift at some point. These are some great insights. But, Steve, as we wind down, you do have the ears and eyes of brothers and sisters who are serving in ministry. I would love to give you the opportunity to speak just words of encouragement for them now. What would you like to leave with them?

Steve Bezner
I think that having the opportunity to serve in the local church is the greatest privilege, and for those of us who do it and have done it for years, sometimes it can feel like death by 1000 paper cuts, because there’s so many people, so many needs, so many requests, and so sometimes we can forget about the privilege and just focus on the job at hand, even get discouraged by it. Because, if we’re honest, sometimes it feels like we’re not making a difference. And what I want you to know is that if you truly love your people and lean in towards your people with love, then God will make a massive difference in their lives that you may not have the opportunity to see that he’s doing it, and it is a massive privilege. So, just be encouraged. God is using you. God is doing beautiful things, and enjoy it, because it is a fantastic opportunity to really just see God work week in and week out among his people.

Jason Daye
Amen. Amen, brother. That’s a great word. For those of you who are watching and listening, we will have a toolkit that complements this episode, just like we have for every episode. In the toolkit, you’ll find a number of resources, including a Ministry Leaders Growth Guide, which pulls insights out of my conversation with Steve, and also some questions for you and the leaders at your local church to wrestle through and to discuss, to process this topic more deeply. You can find that at PastorServe.org/network. Again, there you’ll find the toolkit for this episode. We’ll also include in there, Steve, ways for them to connect with you, brother, because there might be some who are listening who would love to connect and talk a little bit more about transition that they might be facing, some shifts that are going on in their lives. And I know you have that heart that loves the church, but loves pastors and ministry leaders, and it’s a beautiful thing. So, we’ll have that. Be sure to check it out at PastorServe.org/network. Steve, it’s been an absolute pleasure hanging out with you, brother. Thank you for just your openness and your willingness to share a bit of your story about how God has been guiding you, what you’ve been learning as you’ve been making these shifts through ministry seasons, and just encouragement that it is to those of us who are serving. So, thank you for hanging out with us, brother.

Steve Bezner
Thanks so much, Jason. It’s been a true, true joy. I love Pastor Serve and all that you guys do.

Jason Daye
Thank you, my friend. God bless you.

Steve Bezner
All right. Lord bless you.

Jason Daye
Here at Pastor Serve, we hope you’re truly finding value through these episodes of FrontStage BackStage. If so, please consider leaving a review for us on your favorite podcast platform. These reviews help other ministry leaders and pastors just like you find the show, so they can benefit as well. Also, consider sharing this episode with a colleague or other ministry friend, and don’t forget our free toolkit, which is available at PastorServe.org/network. This is Jason Daye, encouraging you to love well, live well, and lead well.