5 Traits of a Healthy Team : Steve Macchia

Full-Text Transcript

Jason Daye
Hello, friends, and welcome to yet another insightful episode of FrontStage BackStage. I’m your host, Jason Daye. Each and every week, I have the honor of sitting down with a trusted ministry leader, and we tackle a topic all in an effort to help you and pastors and ministry leaders just like you embrace healthy rhythms and truly thrive in both your life and leadership. I’m excited for today’s conversation. I’m joined by Steve Macchia. Steve is the president and founder of Leadership Transformations. He’s a best-selling author. He’s written a number of books, including Becoming a Healthy Church, Becoming a Healthy Disciple, and Becoming a Healthy Team. I’m super excited for what we’re going to dive into today. At this time, I’d like to welcome Steve to the show. Steve, welcome, brother.

Steve Macchia
Thank you, Jason. What a treat it is to, first of all, see you, to reconnect, and to have this conversation together. Looking forward to it.

Jason Daye
Yeah, I am too, Steve. Now, we’ve had you on the show before, so welcome back to the show. Steve, you’ve actually had a big impact on our organization, Pastor Serve, as you came and spent a week with us and our team, and really poured into us. We had a great week of soul care and just growth, and as I’ve told you, it’s had ripple effects across our organization. So we appreciate you, brother, all that you do for the kingdom, your many years of service. It’s always a joy to be able to hang out with you. I’m really excited about what we’re going to be focusing in on. You’ve invested a lot of time, energy, a lot of your life, your teaching seminary, your trainings, the work that you do at leadership transformations, and all this around this idea of, how do we become healthy? How do we become healthy as followers of Jesus, right? I mean, that’s kind of where it all starts, but focusing in on pastors and ministry leaders. How do we become a healthy church? How do we become a healthy team? One of the things that is true about every pastor of every church, no matter if it’s a rural church, a suburban church, an urban church, whether it’s a church plant or a church that’s celebrated over 100 years in ministry, whether it’s a church that’s meeting in a coffee house, or a big multi-campus, what we call a mega-church, whatever it might be, it’s that all of us in ministry are serving in a team. We may be a solo pastor at a smaller church without a large staff, but we’re still serving as a team. This is kind of built into God’s design for the church. So, Steve, I’d like to start there. Let’s talk about a bit of that design around teams and why that’s so important when we think about ministering in a local church, again, whether you have a staff of 50 or you’re a solo-pastor, this idea of teams.

Steve Macchia
It’s a great, great question, a great direction for us to move in. I wonder, for those who are listening in, if I could ask them a question, and the question would be, what is your favorite metaphor, biblical metaphor, for the church? Is it bride of Christ? Is it Body of Christ? Is it family of God? Is it chosen people? Holy nation? What is it? Do you have a metaphor? My favorite metaphor comes from Isaiah, actually, when the people of God are described as oaks of righteousness, the planting of the Lord for the display of his wonder. There’s something about the deep-rootedness of the oak tree, the strongest of all trees. Here, Isaiah is describing us, the people of God, as an oak tree, deep roots and flourishing fruit. When I think of a healthy church, a healthy disciple, or a healthy team, yeah, we have to look at fruit. What’s the fruit of the life, or what’s the fruit of the church, or what’s the fruit of the team? What are we known for? What are we seen as? Then, when we look at sort of the biblical text, we see a perfect team in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And we see an invitation into team, or the body of Christ. The Apostle Paul spends a whole chapter in 1 Corinthians 12 on body, body, body, body, and that word is, I think, repeated 17 times in that passage. For us, as pastors and leaders, we know that anytime there’s a repeated word, we need to pay attention to why it’s repeated. So, I think Paul is repeating it over and over again, because probably his favorite metaphor of the Church is the Body of Christ, and he keeps going back to unity and oneness. So, I start with metaphor. What’s your favorite metaphor? Choose your metaphor, invite your people into that metaphor, and be or become the people after God’s own heart through the lens of that metaphor. So when you think about team in particular, I do like the body analogy or the image of a healthy team being the body. Every part matters. There’s no part, whether it’s visible or unseen, that doesn’t matter. All parts matter, and we’re not designed, the body isn’t designed to compete against body parts. It’s to cooperate together toward a whole. To be a whole person, to be a whole body, if you will. But the concern I have, Jason, is that so much today in Christian circles is about competition. We’re competing for whatever reason, competing with each other, even competing with each other within the church. I remember very specifically some experiences I had when I was pastoring in a local church. I felt like we were competing for the best people to fit slots or places of service. Even within the church, we can compete. Yet, I don’t see any verse in the Bible that says to compete with one another. Instead, there’s this cooperating with one another. Be community together. Be companions in this journey. So, when we talk about team, we’re really talking about what does it mean to be a body, and what does it mean to fulfill our God-given purpose within the body? So, team is probably, it’s not a Bible word, by the way. We don’t find it anywhere in the English Translation of the text. We don’t see the word team, and yet, we see the perfect team in the triune God. We see teams all over the scriptures, and we see the apostle Paul in particular, who’s concerned about the disunity of so many of the churches that he was a part of starting. He keeps speaking into that issue. Jesus was concerned about it as well. He would speak often about loving one another, being together, and honoring the children in our midst, knowing that they’re going to teach us what it means to be humble and gracious to one another. So I start with metaphor. I like the metaphors of the church that the scriptures open up for us, and I especially like this body one for a healthy team. So, whether you’re talking about oaks of righteousness, bodies, bride of Christ, or any of these other great biblical metaphors, they’re unifying. They’re always going to be most functional and most fruitful when they’re not competing with each other, but instead cooperating together.

Jason Daye
Yeah, that’s helpful, Steve. Now, as we think about the body of the church, and using that metaphor and this idea of team, there seems to be, and I’d love for you to just speak into this, there seem to be some different ways to think about teams within that body, right? So, if you think of the body, you’re probably thinking of the entire congregation, the entire flock, right? How is that flock complementing one another, working together for the good of God? But then there’s this other kind of layer of team in there at some point, and there might be a few layers of those who are doing maybe some specific ministry or work within that body or in the community, representing that body. So, talk to us a little bit, Steve, about this idea of the metaphor of body. But then, how does that kind of trickle up or trickle down into this idea of teams, right?

Steve Macchia
Well, you know, it does go to the place of who we are. Who are we as the people of God, and what’s going on in our hearts today that leads us to contribute as positively as we can as an individual within the context of a larger team, whether, as you said, it’s a small church, or just a handful of people, or a large church and flourishing church? How are we relating to each other? Are we loving each other? Are we creating an atmosphere where there’s good trust and goodwill among the people of God? So this competition comes out in a variety of ways, but if we’re mean-spirited, for example, towards each other, that’s not building anything that’s fruitful, and we see a lot of that today. I’m sure you do at Pastor Serve. We do at LTI. Why are we so nasty? Why are we so unkind? Why are we not practicing spiritual maturity with each other? So, I do think it begins with who we are as members of the body, and just like a physical or human body, if one part is suffering, everybody’s suffering. You stub your toe, you feel it all over. You don’t just feel it in your toe. If you’re suffering with a particular disease, the whole is affected by the individual part. So I do think we need to look very carefully at what’s the state of the soul of the individual that’s involved in the church or the team? As you described earlier, the sub-groupings within a church that really do need to function as a team, as families. We need to function as a team as married people. We need to function as a team within friendships. Never mind the formal places where we need to be a team to get a task done. But yeah, I think teams are everywhere, and considering others more important than ourselves is what is going to make for the best team. It’s called humility, and grace, and kindness, and love. Those are the things that are really the best and healthiest.

Jason Daye
Hey, friends, just a quick reminder that we provide a free toolkit that complements today’s conversation. You can find this for this episode and every episode at PastorServe.org/network. In the toolkit, you’ll find a number of resources, including our Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. This growth guide includes insights pulled from today’s conversation as well as reflection questions, so you and the ministry team at your local church can dig more deeply into this topic and see how it relates to your specific ministry context. Again, you can find it at PastorServe.org/network.

Jason Daye
Yeah, I think it’s important. Obviously, the book is entitled Becoming a Healthy Team, which immediately makes us realize, healthy teams aren’t just like, boom, hey, we’re a team. We’re doing God’s work, therefore, we are healthy, right? Sometimes, I remember early on in ministry, and I’ve heard this experience from a lot of people, but I had the personal experience where I thought that we would all kind of be on the same page for the most part. Yeah, there might be some little things, but I thought that, hey, we’re all in this thing together. We’re doing God’s work. You just kind of assume, and yet, it takes work to become a healthy team. So, Steve, what are some of the ways that we can, if we’re thinking of a local church, I’m a pastor of a local church. I know there’s some dissonance within our team. What are some beginning steps, rather than just kind of frustratingly trying to work with it and say, Well, this is just who God’s got here at this point in ministry? What are some proactive ways that we can really dig in, some initial steps in becoming a healthy team?

Steve Macchia
Well, the first thing we need to realize is that teams take work. Teams don’t just become teams because you call them a team. Teams become a team when there’s actually love for one another and care for one another, and coming alongside one another to help each other accomplish this bigger thing that no individual could ever accomplish. So first of all, teams are hard work. Teams are challenging because people are coming and going. So anytime any one person enters or exits the team, the team is completely new. So we need to keep starting over again. Every time we add a person or lose a person, the entirety of the team is discombobulated. So we need to come back together again, not with a spirit of assumption, but a spirit of learning and growing together and reacquiring our common passion for the work that God has called us to. So, the very first thing I spell out, five big ideas, and spell the word teams. So the very first thing is trust. So what we need to do immediately is we need to figure out how we’re going to build trust with each other. So that’ll mean things like praying together, reading the scriptures together, slowing down life, and being together, as opposed to always doing functionally what we have as a task in front of us. So I think the very first thing any team needs to do is to get away from the business and get into the care and nurture of each other’s souls, listening, and attending to the space where they find themselves in their walk with God. So that truly, the priority work that we are doing is saying, How are you really doing today, Jason? How are you and God? Before we pressed record, we talked about a few things that we’re going through, and that binds us together. That brings us together. If you were just a functional person and all you did was talk to me about work, then I wouldn’t really get to know you. I want to get to know you as a member of my team. So therefore, what do we need to do to share time together in the word, in prayer, and just being friends, learning to love one another. So that’s where it really worked. Then, from there, what does the individual bring into the team? So we talk about T is trust, E is empowerment. What I want to do is I want to get to know Jason and say, Jason, let’s talk about your gifts, your calling, and your passions for life and ministry, and how can we then plug those into our team that you’re now committed to and excited about because you kind of sign on the dotted line that you’re here. How can we empower you, or how can I, as the leader, empower you as a member of this team to use your gifts and abilities in a way that delights your heart and delights God’s heart and delights our hearts as we watch you emerge. So, I think those are the first two. I don’t know if you want to say anything about those two there.

Jason Daye
Yeah. As you said, these are really kind of setting the foundation for what it means to really do the work of ministry together, right? I was thinking, as you were talking about trust and building that relationship first and foremost, before we’re talking about the actual work of the ministry of the church. Who are we relationally together, bonded together? Steve, as you were talking, I was thinking, I have a friend who’s a pastor in the UK, and they really, really invested in the trust piece of this and really engaged with the pastors and ministry leaders on their team. Spent time doing life together in amazing ways, and great stories out of that. I will say that there was a falling, a moral failing, by one of those team members. I remember my pastor friend saying that it hurt so much more deeply because we’ve been trusting each other, because we’ve been doing life together. So there is this vulnerability piece. I mean, it’s right and it’s good, but I’ve bumped into pastors and ministry leaders who are, Steve, honestly, holding others on their team an arms length away because of past trust that was broken or past hurt. So, can you share with us a little bit about, trust is so important, we’ve gotta start there. We don’t just jump ahead to the mission in the work. But there is that vulnerability piece. Talk to us a little bit about that, Steve. When it comes to a healthy team, how do we navigate that?

Steve Macchia
Yeah, it begins with kind of a commitment to each other. That pastor friend of yours is hurt because there was a breach of trust. It takes so long to build trust, and overnight it can be gone. One bad choice, it’s destroyed, and you gotta figure out how to rebuild trust. But I think covenants are important. So to have a covenant as a team, and it could be as simple as we’re going to treat each other with kindness. We’re going to show up to our meetings on time. We’re going to share authentically with each other. Every team needs to work out their covenant. What are the things that they’re pledging to do as members of this team? Then within that, it’s things like communication, building community, and learning how to resolve our conflicts with each other. Those are parts and pieces of trust-building that, when things go awry, we need to figure out, how are we going to lead towards reconciliation and a repair of the trust that’s been broken? Because conflict is inevitable. It happens in every relational dynamic. So, how do we prepare for the resolving of conflict? You guys know it. Pastor Serve for sure knows that there are not a lot of well-equipped conflict-resolvers, right? Most of us who reside in the pulpit for part of our lives know that we want people to be happy with us. We want people to pay up, turn up, and show up. So we don’t want conflict. But conflict is inevitable, and when conflict is handled with maturity, it actually builds a stronger team. There’s something about it. But if you don’t go to that place of resolution and keep sweeping it under the carpet, you’re going to end up with a bumpy carpet, and you’re jumping all over each other and hurting each other even more. So, that’s not a good resolving of conflict methodology of just ignoring it or wishing it away. It’s great to learn how to forgive one another, to bear one another’s burdens, to share with each other, and love one another. It’s hard to do. There are ways to be trained to be better in our conflict resolution, and maybe that’s going to be necessary along the way. But let’s invite people into a place of spiritual and relational maturity. Let’s talk. Let’s talk this thing out. Let’s build trust, right? I do think that we can assume trust, but not everybody is on the same page. So, how do you articulate what trust looks like and when things are beginning to be a little shaky? Can we love one another enough to be honest with each other and work toward resolution, true, meaningful resolution?

Jason Daye
Yeah, that’s good. That’s super helpful, Steve. So the idea of trust and empowerment, of course, you talked about. Again, this builds on that relational piece. We’re recognizing how God has gifted members of the team, how God is at work and members of the team, and how then do we celebrate those things and allow those things, again, thinking about the body coming together, complementing one another, and pushing forward the mission of God. So that’s the T and the E.

Steve Macchia
Yep, the T and the E lead to the A, right? A is the assimilation. It’s coming together, bringing our best selves into the team, knowing that when we bring our best selves, and there are maybe three, five, or seven of us on the team, we’re actually going to be multiplied in our fruitfulness and effectiveness. So, one plus one never equals two on a team. One plus one equals three or more. It’s like there’s going to be even more good, more fruit, more effectiveness, because we’re willing to bring our full selves alongside each other and to watch God do miraculous, amazing things with the simplicity of just a few people who are just saying, This is what we’re going to do. Let’s go and make this happen. Let’s out-love one another, let’s grow together, and let’s watch what God wants to do. So assimilation is not letting go of your uniqueness. No, it’s bringing your full uniqueness. I know some of my friends, people of color, for example, they don’t like the word assimilation because it’s like the melting pot where everything just sort of dissolves. No, this is a mixture of the best of the best, across ethnicities, across backgrounds, across even theological persuasion, because we’re not all going to be in full agreement on every jot and tittle of our theology. So, how are we going to bring what we have and offer it completely and watch God multiply? It’s assimilation that really is the multiplying effect of cross-pollination, being oriented toward another, and seeing life through the lens of the Spirit of God, who’s going to do things much better, more powerfully, and effectively, and in a multiplied and mysterious fashion. We’re not going to see everything that our team can create or even be fruitful toward. There’s going to be some mystery attached to it. There’s going to be another generation that’s going to be impacted by something that we experienced as a team, or as an individual of a team, that we’ll never know; we’ll just never know. So, it’s bringing your very best, seeing it side by side with those who are wanting to do the same thing, and then just watching with amazement at what God does. So, that’s the A.

Jason Daye
Yeah. Steve, I love the way that kind of the E and A work together, because you’ve got the empowered side, which is creating that culture and that freedom to say, Hey, God has gifted you. We’re looking at the other people on our team, we’re encouraging and empowering them. Then assimilate is kind of like now I’m looking at myself and recognizing how God has gifted me and what I bring to this team, and I’m taking that responsibility, that initiative, to lean in. But that empowering culture is necessary in order to really invite people to come in and, as you said, give their best, show up in their best, and give their best to God and to what God’s called them to do. I love that relationship.

Steve Macchia
Yeah, and if you can identify with what your passion is, and be in a culture that wants to know that with you, and then watch that be released. It’s stuff that doesn’t exist in the job description. It’s the stuff of the person. It’s the person who’s an artist, who also is on your team, and you finally say, Hey, maybe when we go on that retreat next month, would you do something creative or artistic? In fact, on our retreat with Paster Serve, we did a few creative things together. It brings us together. It doesn’t really have a functional purpose that we’re going to offer to others, but it’s going to draw us together because of what we bring out. We bring out the best in each other. We have some laughter and joy in the process. That was amazing what we did on the retreat. I remember the tin foil, and they were pathetic, but it was part of the journey together. I think it really was a team-building thing. It wasn’t competitive, it was fun. And I think we did a few other things. We did some painting on the back porch there. Remember that? Where we added, what did we do? Three colors and we mix them together and made this amazing piece of art that all of us. What were there, 16, 17, 20 of us on that retreat? It wasn’t in the job description, per se, but it was what drew us together. So, none of us were good at the art. None of us were good with the tinfoil, but it flattened the playing field, and it drew us into a united sense, relationally, spiritually, and then the net positive in the life and ministry of Pastor Serve is what? We delighted, right? My gosh, when we love one another like that, we can do amazing things for the Kingdom. You can conquer any mountain. There’s no mountain too big that you can’t climb together when you are side by side and bringing your very best into the picture.

Jason Daye
Yeah, I love that. I love that. So M is management, right? Which sounds so like everything else is yeah, yeah, yeah. Then management? It’s like, come on. So talk to us about this.

Steve Macchia
Such a killjoy. I’m sorry. But we manage lots of stuff as a team. Money. So the budget matters, the resources that we’re utilizing matter, and the time that we’re given matters. So we gotta manage that. You gotta take care of those details because that impacts our life together. Go back to the Pastor Serve retreat. We had that couple who prepared for a long time to make amazing meals every single day of that retreat, three meals a day. That doesn’t just happen, right? That’s well-planned. That’s well-managed. Part of the reason why M is management is because I distinguish, as well, the difference between leadership and management. You lead people, you manage things. We manage stuff. No person wants to be managed, and yet, every person wants to be led. If you’re going to manage anyone, manage yourself. Don’t look over the shoulder trying to manage someone else. That never works. It never works. So, even within my family system, every time I tried to manage my kids, it didn’t work. But to lead them and to invite them into a better way of being, that seemed to have worked because it’s more affirming and more celebratory of the person. So I distinguish between management and leadership. I say management is basically common sense plus follow-through equals management. So common sense is who, what, when, where, why, and how. So I know all those questions need to be asked in order to get the task done, and if I follow through on that, then I’m managing really well. So the management of that couple who cooked for us on retreat is that they prepared for weeks to get that menu together for all those different meals. They purchased all the material, and then they presented this great, complete meal for us to enjoy. So when teams can kind of think, Okay, what do we need to manage, who’s in charge of that, and who’s going to show up by when to get this part of teamwork done, then we really shine when the moment comes for us to serve and to be available to the needs of others. So I do think management really does matter, but it’s distinguishable between management and leadership. We know that leadership matters. We know how it matters. Everything rises and falls around leadership, and that’s what you guys do so, so well. You come alongside pastors all the time, and if they’re in a good space, there’s probably good fruit. If they’re not in good space, they may need a break or sabbatical or rest from team life and ministry, because it’s just wearing them thin. That’s what Pastor Serve does so well, day in and day out. And you, I think, understand the difference between management and leadership. You’re going to deal with what needs to be managed, but you’re going to inspire, encourage, and invite people into ministry because of good leadership.

Jason Daye
At Pastor Serve, we love walking alongside pastors and ministry leaders just like you. If you want to learn more about how you can qualify for a complimentary coaching session with one of our trusted ministry coaches, please visit PastorServe.org/freesession. You don’t want to miss out on this opportunity. That’s PastorServe.org/freesession.

Jason Daye
Yeah, I love that. Such an important distinction. I love the way that you flesh it out in Becoming a Healthy Team. The idea that management is both that common sense, the who, what, where, when, why, and the follow-through. I’m glad you put both those pieces together, because sometimes, you leave out the execution side, right? They’re all big on the idea of managing and getting all the pieces. But then, if you can’t execute, if you don’t follow through, nothing really gets accomplished. And that builds frustration, even within teams, right? Because we talk a big talk, but things don’t get accomplished. So I love those pieces together, and I think that’s key, as you share about what it means to be a healthy team, right?

Steve Macchia
Well, there’s nothing more frustrating than talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, and there’s no follow-through. I think a team leader needs to make sure that there is that follow-through, and people are not just saying, yes, they’ll do this, but actually accomplish that. And that’s what leads to the S of teams, and that’s service. It’s all about others. A team is not about a team. A team is about the service outside of the team toward another. So that’s what we’re called to. We’re called to be servants. We’re called to follow Jesus’s example as servants. So, what are we called to actually do in ministry? That’s our place of service. So whether we’re on a board, or we’re on a team that’s doing a mission trip, or a Sunday school class, youth group, or whatever our service is. If the team isn’t out there caring for others, then they’re just having a good time hanging out together as a team. That’s great, and you want to do that as often as possible to build those quality relationships, but we have to get outside ourselves and give ourselves away, and that’s really what service is all about. How can I be of service on this team alongside you, where together, we’re accomplishing this major responsibility, whether it’s leading the church, leading a particular part of the church, or leading a mission trip? So leadership matters and service matters. That service piece, I call it, what did I say here? Anticipating transformative results. That’s what a service-oriented team looks forward to. So, my basic definition is that the Christian ministry team is a manageable group of diversely gifted people who hold one another accountable to serve joyfully together for the glory of God by sharing a common mission, embodying the loving message of Christ, accomplishing a meaningful ministry, and anticipating transformative results. You want to have a story related to your work. If you don’t have a story, you really don’t have a ministry. But when you have a story of a life that’s changed, then you really do have a significant work that’s worthy of celebration. So I really do think we need to tap into the call of God that’s on our lives to fulfill what God has put in front of us as a team, not as one-person shows, but as a team, even if it’s just one or two other people. What are we doing together? We’re building relationships of trust. We’re seeing each other’s gifts and strengths and saying, Wow, go and do that. That would be awesome. Empower them to do that, draw together the life in a simulated fashion, then manage well, and make a difference. It sounds easy, but it’s really hard. It’s hard work. It’s hard to choose to be a team leader because you have to learn how to defer, be humble and gracious, listen, and adjust. There have been countless times when I’ve said to our team, I want you to thrive. Every member of this team, I want you to thrive. Then someone comes and says, I’d really like to do that. And I’m like, Okay, how can I make that work? If I can, I say, Go for it. Let’s do that. Let’s try that. That’s wonderful. It’s still within the mission of what we’re called to do. So yeah, add some creativity.

Jason Daye
I love that. I love that. This has been an excellent overview, Steve. So, a couple of things before we wind down. One, it’s been a great overview for those of you watching and listening on Steve’s book, Becoming a Healthy Team, and he goes into a lot more depth. As you said, this takes work, so he helps you process and dig more deeply into this. In fact, you have a compliment to the Becoming a Healthy Team book itself. So, I’d love for you to talk about that resource a little bit and how those who are looking to develop these healthy teams within their ministries can access those resources.

Steve Macchia
Thank you. Thank you for asking that. Yeah, the book is complemented actually by two tools. One is a workbook, which is filled with non-competitive team-building exercise activities. It’s chock-full. One of my former students at Gordon-Conwell worked with me on that, and he had some great creative ideas. So you can get that workbook that goes along with it. But the other piece that we’ve done is, we call it the Team Health Assessment Tool. It’s called THAT. We have a Church Health Assessment Tool, which is CHAT. So we have CHAT and THAT. But the THAT piece is like a 360. It’s basically giving a tool to team members that give them an opportunity to give voice into the team experience from their perspective. It’s a wonderfully helpful tool. It’s online. It’s available to any of your listeners as well. It’s a great way just to sort of assess, where are we today, and where do people on the team sense that we need to be moving into? Team Health Assessment Tool, Becoming a Healthy Team, and Becoming a Healthy Team workbook. Those are the three resources.

Jason Daye
Absolutely. Love that. For those of you watching or listening along, we’ll have links to not only the book but also the workbook with those team exercises, and to the healthy team assessment. We’ll have links to those in the toolkit that you guys can download at PastorServe.org/network for this episode. Steve, last thing as we’re closing down. Thank you for spending some time hanging out with me, brother, it’s always a pleasure. I want to give you an opportunity to just share some words of encouragement with pastors and ministry leaders who are watching or listening along.

Steve Macchia
Well, first of all, I know that every leader today, especially pastors, is faced with a massive task. It is not an easy job to be a pastor today. The demands are heightening, and the hours of the day are not following suit. So I would just encourage everyone that’s a part of the Pastor Serve family to take good care of their soul. Number one, it’s the only place where you can be a little selfish in life. That is to make sure that you have time in your prayer closet to entrust your heart back into the hands of the Lord. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Don’t neglect that. Don’t neglect your soul, because if you neglect your soul, you’re going to burn out, you’re going to run ragged, you’re going to try to beat up all those expectations, and you can’t, you simply can’t. If you can, pray into God’s direction for your life and ministry, and then find a trusted confidant to share that journey with. Someone from PastorServe or other places of encouragement. We need to do this ministry life together. You can’t do it on your own. You need a friend, a handful of friends, so reach out to Pastor Serve and say, I need a friend for a while, or I need a friend long-term. Where can I find one? Because you can’t do this team life, this ministry life, church life in your own strength or alone as an individual. So be in community, take care of your soul, and find joy in the journey. Otherwise, it’s tedious work and responsibility. There’s more to the abundant life than that.

Jason Daye
Amen, great word, brother. Steve, again, always good to hang out, always good to see you, and spend some time. You share so much wisdom, and we certainly appreciate that. So, thank you for making time to be with us here on FrontStage BackStage.

Steve Macchia
Thank you. It was a joy. God bless you.

Jason Daye
God bless you, brother.

Jason Daye
Here at Pastor Serve, we hope you’re truly finding value through these episodes of FrontStage BackStage. If so, please consider leaving a review for us on your favorite podcast platform. These reviews help other ministry leaders and pastors just like you find the show, so they can benefit as well. Also, consider sharing this episode with a colleague or other ministry friend, and don’t forget our free Toolkit, which is available at PastorServe.org/network. This is Jason Daye, encouraging you to love well, live well, and lead well.