How Ministry Coaching Transformed My Life & Leadership : Brian Martin

Jason Daye | , , , , , , , ,

How Ministry Coaching Transformed My Life & Leadership - Brian Martin - 123 - FrontStage BackStage with Jason Daye

How can ministry coaching help you be even more effective in living out God’s purpose for your life in serving His Kingdom? In this week’s conversation on FrontStage BackStage, host Jason Daye is joined by Brian Martin. Brian is the Chief Operating Officer at PastorServe. Prior to joining the PastorServe team, Brian was a NASCAR chaplain for the Joe Gibbs Racing team. He also served as a chaplain in the US Air Force. In addition, Brian was a solo pastor and an executive pastor. Together, Brian and Jason explore the many benefits of ministry coaching for your life. Brian shares from his own experiences how ministry coaching helped him understand more fully what God was doing in his life and what God desired to do through his life in ministry.

Looking to dig more deeply into this topic and conversation? Every week we go the extra mile and create a free toolkit so you and your ministry team can dive deeper into the topic that is discussed. Find your Weekly Toolkit below… Love well, Live well, Lead well!

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Additional Resource Links

www.pastorserve.org – Explore Brian’s bio page to discover more about his role in the PastorServe ministry, his accomplishments, and much more.

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Feeling overwhelmed, burned out, or just want to talk?  Complimentary Coaching Session for Pastors http://PastorServe.org/freesession

Ministry Leaders Growth Guide

Key Insights and Concepts

  • Sometimes, the path to discovering your true calling involves realizing what doesn’t fit.
  • Serving in ministry often begins with a simple ‘yes’ to leadership, even when you’re unsure of your qualifications.
  • True joy in work is found when your passions align with your God-given purpose.
  • Relational evangelism isn’t just about preaching; it’s about walking alongside people in their everyday lives.
  • Coaching can be a transformative experience, offering guidance and accountability during challenging times.
  • Your spouse is not your coworker and does not need to be burdened with all the issues you face in your ministry work. Protecting your spouse requires setting healthy boundaries.
  • Change is difficult in any context, but in ministry, understanding the culture you’re serving in is crucial. It is often helpful to have outside perspectives, like those from a coach, to assist you in navigating change.
  • In pastoral leadership, the importance of conflict resolution cannot be overstated. It’s essential for church health, and gaining insights in conflict resolution from a coach can make an incredible difference in your ministry.
  • Even in the midst of overwhelming circumstances, trusting that God has a purpose for you in that season is key.
  • Developing leaders within the church is as important as pastoring; it’s about equipping others to carry the mission forward.
  • Coaching helps turn frustration and venting into constructive action and personal growth.
  • Balancing administrative and pastoral roles can lead to greater joy and effectiveness in ministry.
  • Investing in a coach is investing in your long-term health and effectiveness in ministry.
  • Self-advocacy is vital in ministry; don’t wait for others to recognize your needs—speak up for your well-being.

Questions for Reflection

  • How do I discern when to step into a leadership role, even if I feel unprepared or inadequate? Or out of a leadership role, if it may be time to move on? What does this teach me about faith and obedience? 
  • Who are the trusted people in my life, like a ministry coach, that help me process big decisions and challenging situations? How can I better utilize trusted voices in my life and leadership? What would this look like for me?
  • Am I finding joy in my ministry work, or am I merely going through the motions? What might be hindering me from experiencing true joy?
  • How can I build deeper relationships within my congregation that go beyond the pulpit? In what ways can I walk alongside my members in their daily lives?
  • In what ways can I seek out coaching and mentorship in my ministry? How might this help me grow personally and professionally?
  • How do I balance the demands of ministry with the needs of my marriage and family? Are there any boundaries that need to be set or reinforced?
  • What do I see as the value of having a ministry coach? How are “backstage” issues being addressed in my life now? How do I currently work through “frontstage” issues? How might a coach help?
  • How do I handle conflict within my church leadership or congregation? Do I feel I can learn more about becoming effective with conflict resolution? What steps can I take to resolve issues in a way that promotes healing and unity?
  • In what ways am I trusting God’s purpose during challenging seasons in my ministry? How can I better align my perspective with His?
  • How intentional am I in developing leaders within my church? What more can I do to equip others to lead effectively?
  • How do I maintain my own spiritual health while serving others as a pastor or ministry leader? What practices help me stay connected to God?
  • Am I open to receiving coaching or feedback from others? How can this openness contribute to my growth and effectiveness in ministry?
  • How do I manage the balance between administrative responsibilities and pastoral care? What adjustments might lead to a more fulfilling ministry?
  • How can I better advocate for my needs within my ministry context? In what areas do I need to speak up for my well-being?
  • In what ways am I investing in my long-term health and success as a ministry leader? What steps can I take to ensure I’m not just surviving but thriving?
  • How do I navigate feelings of frustration or burnout in my ministry? What practices or resources can help me turn these feelings into opportunities for growth?

Full-Text Transcript

How can ministry coaching help you be even more effective in living out God’s purpose for your life in serving His Kingdom?

Jason Daye
In this episode, I’m joined by Brian Martin. Brian is the Chief Operating Officer at PastorServe. Prior to joining the PastorServe team, Brian was a NASCAR chaplain for the Joe Gibbs Racing team. He also served as a chaplain in the US Air Force. In addition, Brian was a solo pastor and an executive pastor. Together, Brian and I explore the many benefits of ministry coaching for your life. Brian shares from his own experiences how ministry coaching helped him understand more fully what God was doing in his life and what God desired to do through his life in ministry. Are you ready? Let’s go.

Jason Daye 
Hello, friends, and welcome to another insightful episode of Frontstage Backstage. I’m your host, Jason Daye, and each and every week, I have the privilege and the honor of sitting down with a trusted ministry leader. We dive into a conversation all in an effort to help you and pastors and ministry leaders just like you embrace healthy rhythms for both your life and leadership. We are proud to be a part of the PastorServe Network. Not only do we have a conversation like this every week, but our team creates an entire toolkit for you and your team at your local church to dig more deeply into the topic that we tackle. You can find that toolkit at PastorServe.org/network. Within that toolkit, you will find a number of resources, including our Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. There, you’ll find insights and questions that you can process through yourself and with your ministry team at your local church. We encourage you to take advantage of that resource. Now, at PastorServe, we love walking alongside pastors and ministry leaders, and we have an opportunity for you to receive a complimentary coaching session. If you want to learn more details about that, you can go to PastorServe.org/freesession. So be sure to check that out as well. Now, if you’re joining us on YouTube, please give us a thumbs up and take a moment to drop your name and the name of your church in the comments below. We love getting to know our audience better, and we will be praying for you and your ministry. Now, whether you’re following us on YouTube or your favorite podcast platform, please subscribe and follow. You do not want to miss out on any of these great conversations. We have an excellent conversation for you this week. At this time, I’d like to welcome Brian Martin to the show. Brian, welcome.

Brian Martin 
Hey, Jason. Thanks so much for having me.

Jason Daye 
Yeah, brother, so good to have you. Now, Brian, you and I are friends, and we’re colleagues. Brian actually serves as the Chief Operating Officer at PastorServe and we’re excited to have him as part of our team. We’re blessed to have him on our team. But today, we are going to talk a little bit. Brian’s going to share from his own personal experiences about how ministry coaching impacted his life and his ministry. So we’re excited to hear about that and hope this will be an encouragement to all those who are watching or listening in as you are serving in the kingdom as well. So Brian, to start out, why don’t you share with us how you started ministry? Tell us about your initial call into ministry and what doors God opened up for you and you stepped through.

Brian Martin 
Yeah. Thanks, Jason. Thanks so much for having me on. I was a chemistry major in college, so ministry was not on the radar at all at that point. But as I graduated with a chemistry degree and kind of got into the field, I was a chemist for a while, and I realized that chemists work with four walls, no windows, and I was like, my personality doesn’t fit that. I so wanted to be with people. So, I got plugged into a local church. I live in Charlotte, North Carolina, and the church I got to be a part of had a young adult ministry, and the leader in that group brought me sort of under his wing. He said, Brian, I want you to be part of our leadership team. I was like, I’ve never done this before. You know, I’m a believer. I’ve been in churches, but I’ve never served in any kind of leadership capacity. He said, Oh, it’d be okay. So, I came on as a “leadership team member” in this young adult ministry in Charlotte. I started, and my area of focus was local outreach and missions, global missions. So, I got to lead. I had a lot of fun. I got to lead mission trips and just local outreach. Just how can we connect young adults in the Charlotte community with serving the community from the church? It was fun. I was like, I want a job that’s fun, right? That I can get paid to do things that I actually enjoy. I will say, Jason, that was the first time I really sensed joy in what I was doing in my work. So that was sort of that sense of call to ministry. I talked to a few of my friends who were in seminary, folks that I knew going to seminary. Explored it, and took a class just to kind of get my feet a little bit wet, but loved it. So, yeah, that’s where I started the four-year journey of seminary, going part-time but also working part-time.

Jason Daye 
Yeah, that’s awesome. So, as you felt that joy for ministering, you felt a God just working in your life, drawing you toward this vocation, which is awesome. Start seminary, and then what did you start as your ministry role? When you first went into ministry, what were you doing?

Brian Martin 
Well, serving in that young adult ministry was the very first thing I did. It was really co-pastoring a group at the church we were at. Again, I get to teach once in a while. I got to preach at our service. We met once a week. I get to preach at that once in a while. We’re primarily setting up local mission work and also leading mission trips. I led lots of men’s small groups, which today, that’s probably my greatest joy. I love to lead small groups of men or couples. It’s just a lot of fun. That’s just helping disciple people in a small group manner in someone’s house. To me, that’s just a lot of fun.

Jason Daye 
Yeah, I love that. So then you moved into the chaplaincy.

Brian Martin 
Yeah. As part of seminary, you had to have an internship, and I met a guy. His name was Bob Dyer. He was the chaplain at Joe Gibbs Racing in Huntersville. Bob actually started a ministry at the time. It would have been called Church Sports Outreach or Carolina Sports Outreach. Today, that ministry is known as Seed Sports. But again, he was the head chaplain at Joe Gibbs Racing, and he had the concept in his head of like a part-time person, a part-time chaplain to come alongside him, and eventually turn full-time. So I got to be that guy that Bob was like, let’s test the waters. Never had this before, but let’s just see how it goes. So, I initially was part-time at Joe Gibbs Racing but quickly became full-time as the chaplain under Bob, and it was fun. I had a blast doing that for seven years.

Jason Daye 
Yeah, that is exciting. Whenever you share that with me, and I’m sure those watching or listening along, I mean, that’s kind of an interesting, exciting way to do ministry. You know, we hear a lot of chaplains in the sports world, and just to be able to be present and be a part of these athletes’ lives and those types of things sounds pretty cool, you know? I know you got to see a lot of cool races. You got to have a lot of cool experiences. So you continued in chaplaincy, and then what was next for you?

Brian Martin 
Yes, I did that for seven years and hit a point at the race shop. I loved what I did. I got to, I mean, primarily, I was blessed to be able to work with every member at the race shop. Everyone I got to spend time with. I walked around, had lunches with guys, went to the movies, just relational evangelism, and I love that. But at the end of my seven years, I just wanted more in the sense of leadership growth, and I had always desired to serve my country in the military. You know, some folks I asked about it. Hey, what do you think about being a chaplain in the Air Force? I heard some no’s. No, you might not want to do that. Not sure where that’s going to take you. But, Jason, I don’t know, I’ve always been up for a challenge. Something a little bit outside the box. So, I applied to be a chaplain in the Air Force. Was told, Well, it’s probably not going to work out anyway, so let’s go for it. But God opened doors, and I became a chaplain at Little Rock Air Force Base in 2011 and I served in the military for a little over three years, and I was deployed with the army in Kuwait. So I got to do a lot of fun things. You know, the military, it’s not for everyone. It wasn’t me in the sense that I was going to retire doing that. But it was a joy. I mean, it was fun. At the race shops, it was a little different. We had about 400 staff. In the military, there were 7000 people on the flight line and on base. That was a bit overwhelming. But again, it was all about building relationships and spending time with people. The Air Force has built a lot around chapel ministries. We did a lot of preaching, teaching, and just caring for people. That’s really what God has given me a heart for in ministry so much of. It’s just walking alongside people and their families, and just when things happen, you’re that person that they can turn to. But I will say this, as a chaplain, our goal has always been not for us to be the church so to speak, for those we serve. The goal is to get them involved in a local church. So anyway, it was fun. Relational evangelism is still at the core of what I love to do.

Jason Daye 
Yeah, that’s excellent, Brian. So then from there, a new season of ministry. You’ve been in chaplaincy now for quite some time, a decade, basically, with the race team and then the Air Force. Thank you for your service. But then it seems God shifted a bit as you were kind of praying and seeing what’s next. So tell us a bit about that.

Brian Martin 
Yeah, so as I had made the decision to get out of the Air Force, I had to have a job. I had to move. I felt the call to work in the local church because I had never really worked in the local church. When I went through seminary, the church that I did young adult ministry with, paid mostly for my seminary. I was, in a sense, working at the local church, but I’d never pastored a church. So when I got out of the military an opportunity opened up that was south of Charlotte in a smaller rural community, and I became the pastor of a church of around 40 people at the time. We had a nine-person session and we had 40 people in the church. A small rural community, a family church. I had just gotten married, so Carrie is my wife, and we had not yet adopted our daughter, Audrey. But it was just the two of us, and we were pastoring this church. Yeah, so that was, I guess, my first solo pastoring, only at this point, solo pastoring.

Jason Daye 
Right. So, you go into the local church, had come out of chaplaincy, you go into the local church, and you’re serving there, and what were you experiencing as you’re serving the local church? I know that your experience, probably a bunch of us who are watching or listening along will resonate with this. So you were a solo pastor, right? Small church. You were the everything. You wore a lot of hats. So, what were some of your experiences there at the local church?

Brian Martin 
Yeah, so, again, I’d never been in that context. The church that I had been at as a young adult pastor had several 1000 people, and this church now had 40, and I had never led a session.

Jason Daye 
A session, real quickly, it’s like the board meeting, right?

Brian Martin 
Yes, a board meeting. In the denomination that I’m in, we have sessions of the leadership team at the church. Again, a lot of the people in this leadership team were family, so I just kind of knew, and I was excited to lead. I was like, all right, God’s calling me to do this. I enjoy teaching. I enjoy that part. But I knew I was a bit over my head not too long in when things started to pop up. I’ve always liked to think outside the box. I like to do things a little bit different. But what I found in the context, at least that I was in, change was hard. Probably everyone listening to this probably says, Yes, you should probably have known that. Change is hard. But I don’t think Jason, I realized how hard it would be. I didn’t really understand the context I was going into. I had come from an urban, larger church field to a smaller church. That isn’t something they necessarily teach you at seminary, and I don’t think they can really teach you that at seminary. But I had a lot to learn and I knew it.

Jason Daye 
So you find yourself, Brian, in this situation, right? You’re kind of a fish out of water, but you felt God had brought you there. You’re trying to be obedient. You’re trying to serve, right? So what do you do? You find yourself in that situation which all of us in ministry have found ourselves in a situation where we’re not completely sure what we need to do. There are challenges and those types of things. So, what did you do, Brian?

Brian Martin 
Well, I’d be lying if I didn’t say “run” was in the back of my head, right? But no, it was interesting. When I got out of the Air Force, the denomination I’m in, we have annual meetings, and this group, our denomination, partners with PastorServe. So when I was getting out of the Air Force, I had encountered one of the PastorServe coaches, and he and I got to know each other at one of our denominational meetings. So I already had talked to him. So when I got into this new solo pastorate, and I felt the water kind of rising on me, I reached out to that coach. He was somebody I knew, and God gave me the wisdom, I guess. It wasn’t me. I believe it was God who knew I needed help. I couldn’t do that alone. I’ve always been a learner. I love to learn. I don’t mind help coming alongside me. So when it started getting like that, I reached out to the coach I had met at PastorServe, and he and I talked. We actually met up again at another one of our denominational conferences. We figured it out and he told me what coaching looked like. I had never done coaching. I’ve done counseling. I’ve done that. That’s been a part of my life quite a bit, but I’d never done coaching, so it was really new to me. But I was willing to give it a shot and so we did. I started that relationship with PastorServe. 2016 is when I started. That’s kind of when we kicked it off. For the next three years, he walked alongside me and my wife. We’re so grateful.

Jason Daye 
That’s awesome. So Brian, thank you for sharing your story and your experience. Let’s talk a little bit about the benefits of coaching. What helped you the most, I guess, as you were trying to navigate ministry? What were some things that helped you the most in that coaching relationship?

Brian Martin 
Yeah, that’s a great question, Jason. There are so many, I will say. Having somebody to talk to. I knew I didn’t feel comfortable sharing with the leadership team at the church. I didn’t understand enough to try and cultivate that relationship at the time or that environment. I didn’t know who to share with. As I was struggling, initially, I reached out to our denomination and I shared, but something there was still missing. They weren’t in the context. One of the benefits the coaching with PastorServe, or it could be another group, right? A lot of groups do coaching. But with PastorServe, the coach I was with had been a pastor himself, so he got what I was talking about. He understood the challenges that I was speaking about. So just to have that person to walk alongside me, to share with, to vent with, right? Let’s be honest, I did some. The neat thing with coaching is, eventually, the venting, the frustration, and kind of getting it all out there does turn positive. You start working on challenges, and you’ve got a person to hold you accountable. Every week, or probably once a month or twice a month, we kind of mixed up how we met, but I knew I had something to work on each time we’d come in, we would leave with something to work on, and I had that person to hold me accountable when we came back. So that was a big part of it. I will say what I did. I don’t know if others do this, but this coach really challenged me not to share so much with my wife about my job, right? My wife, Carrie, became my, oh, I come home and I talk about the church, and this person and that person, and Jason, we’ve talked about it a lot, and my coach called me on it and said, You have to stop that, right? Your wife is not your coworker, nor does she want to be your coworker, and she has to go to church with these people. So Carrie confirmed all that. My coach said, Hey, let’s put a timer on how much you talk about work and it helped our marriage. Frontstage Backstage, I know the podcast is called that, but that was reality for me. We talked frontstage stuff. My coach helped me with a lot of how to develop leaders in the church, how to deal with conflict with people, and all that stuff. But I think the thing that helped me the most was behind the scenes and just sort of every time before our session, I had a document to fill out and it said, Brian, how are you doing physically, emotionally, and spiritually? And I tried to be as honest as possible. Sometimes I wasn’t doing that great emotionally, spiritually, or physically. Depression and anxiety are something I have struggled with and kind of struggled with through the pastorate. So it was good, Jason, just to have someone to even ask me those questions because I didn’t find leadership teams at the church asking those types of questions, nor was I really comfortable sharing, especially at a church that small.

Jason Daye 
Yeah, that makes sense, and it’s interesting. I think we do see some movement, Brian. PastorServe is celebrating 25 years. We’ve been doing this a long time and we are seeing some movement in some churches, where it seems that the leadership teams are being a bit more reflective with their pastors, and a bit more really looking at that care side, and the understanding, I think, is growing, but we still have a long way to go. I know pastors and ministry leaders sense that and feel that. That same hesitation that you felt, Brian, I’m sure many, many feel like, how much can I share with them, and how much are they really interested, maybe, at this point in what I’m struggling with. I mean, is that helpful for the leadership of the local church? Yeah, that’s good. It’s helpful. And just setting those boundaries. Boundaries in your own marriage. You talked about that backstage piece, that boundary of, What am I sharing with my spouse? I don’t want to just dump everything on my spouse, right? Because that doesn’t help them, necessarily. So who can I talk to? That’s why a coach is so helpful. Awesome. So there are some great advantages and benefits of having a coach. How did having a coach in your life help you develop as a minister and really get a sense of where God was leading you in ministry?

Brian Martin 
Yeah, it’s interesting. Yeah, I developed a lot personally. I mean, that’s part of coaching is that it’s not counseling, or it’s separate from counseling. It’s good to have the counselor, but also the coach. One area was conflict resolution. Before that even, my coach helped me recognize, I knew this. That when I get in a tense situation, my go-to is being defensive, right? I knew that about myself, and I think having someone to talk to about that and call it out and say, It’s okay. It’s okay that you’re that way, and really encouraged me to talk with our leadership team about that and kind of own that and say, Hey, I am defensive. I let them know that I’m defensive. I’m sorry. That’s something I’m working on. I want to develop. That was a big deal for me to be able to kind of own my piece in what’s going on. I could quickly become the victim and say, Oh, woe, is Brian. This is such a hard situation. God take me out of it. But God brought us there, and I trusted that he was going to do his work in our family through it. But yeah, I think developing just in dealing with conflict and just being more healthy myself. I had situations that would arise where I had to deal with leadership team members just one-on-one, and I couldn’t let it go. It had to be dealt with. So I felt like I was not a professional. I’m not perfect at resolving conflict, but God has given me the ability to move into it now, I think, and do it in a much more healthy way. Health is a huge thing to me. I long for God’s Church to be healthy. That’s just something he’s put in me in whatever capacity I can help with that. But that was through coaching. A lot of those things developed in me. But it was kind of interesting as I was going through seminary, excuse me, not seminary, but through my solo pastorate, I’d always wanted to go to business school. I had an interest in not just the pastoral side of ministry, but the administration side. I had always enjoyed that. From my military time, I used my GI Bill part of it and went back and got my MBA at a local university. That was partly my coach encouraging me to do it. Use this time to sort of balance that with working and going to school because eventually I had these administrative gifts and pastoral gifts, and I didn’t really know what to do with that. So I talked with my coach just about those longings, and he really helped me and asked me questions. You know, Brian, where do you find the greatest joy, and this idea of consolation desolation, where do you find your joy? What are the things you’re doing that maybe you don’t like as much? That led me down the road to my next position would be that of an executive pastor. A lot of that, again, came from my coach asking me questions and I think also just confirming things in me that he saw. I just firmly believe God was in that relationship to really get me to I think have more joy in my role as a pastor. An executive pastor was where I could pastor, but I could also help with a lot of the administrative and sort of executing the mission and vision of the church. I had a lot of joy doing that.

Jason Daye 
That’s awesome, Brian. I love that concept of coaching, that coaching helps us for where we are. It helps us navigate where we are. But coaching also builds in and helps us better discern, perhaps, where God is leading us, right? So it’s that twofold piece in coaching. It is helping us in our present place. It’s also developing us and helping us see where God is taking us. Your life is a great example of that with your coach and the fact that you spent, was it three years that you were in coaching.

Brian Martin 
Three years. Well, yeah, it’s three years, not solid, but most of three years with this coach.

Jason Daye 
Yeah, that’s awesome.

Brian Martin 
I’m still doing coaching to this day. I’m not coaching with PastorServe anymore in the sense of, I think there’s like, I have a coach that I met after that, and there are different coaches for different seasons. I think I will always have a coach in my life. I think there are just different seasons for different people. But, yeah, I do believe God’s using my current coach, really, to continue. I feel like we’re always evolving. I think we’re always just listening, or trying to listen, to where God has us. It might be in the same church or organization for 20 or 30 years, but it might not be. It might be that God will lead you to something else. I think having that coach is someone for discernment. I think that shared discernment. So I highly recommend it.

Jason Daye 
Yeah, that’s awesome. So your coach worked with you as a solo pastor, helped you better understand yourself, how God wired you, how God created you, some of the giftings that he gave you, some of the passions that God had instilled within you, and you pursued some of that with your MBA. Then from there, realized hey, and you stepped out of that solo pastor position, went into an executive pastor position, and then ultimately, God continued to work in your life. You continued to develop and God brought you to PastorServe, where you serve as our Chief Operating Officer. You get to use all of that pastoral experience, the operational administrative experience, and you are serving the kingdom. So I think it’s just an awesome story and an awesome example of how we grow, and how God molds us and shapes us, how he puts things in our lives, and how he wants to water those things and see them blossom. Brian, as we’re kind of wrapping down this conversation, what is some encouragement that you would give pastors and ministry leaders?

Brian Martin 
Yeah, when I came into work at PastorServe, I thought everyone was open to a coach, right? This is just something everyone did. I saw such benefit in it but I soon realized, well, this is maybe not for everyone, right? But I encourage everyone out there if you have some reluctance, to give it a try. My coach, one thing he taught me was experiment. At PastorServe, one concept we do a lot with is experiment. Try it on. Wear it for a season. Just see how it goes. I understand there’s some reluctance to coaching. Part of it might be financial. For me, when I went into coaching, coaching wasn’t cheap when I got into it. It was over $4,500 for a year. But I look back and that was the best investment I ever made. I mean, thanks to the Lord, I didn’t end up paying most of it. I went to our denomination. I went to our local extension, part of our denomination, and God brought the funds. The church that I was at ended up paying some. I think if you want to do it, the money’s out there. I think you can raise it. We scholarship through PastorServe. We do some scholarshipping. I would encourage you to do it. Just take that step. I think of the spouses of pastors, Jason. My coach met with myself and my wife at times. Not every session, but Carrie was brought in and he asked me questions. Brian, how’s your marriage doing? How are you guys doing with X, Y, and Z? It’s invaluable just to have a person. I encourage denominations or church bodies to really work this into the call. Whether you call it terms of call, your salary package, or compensation package, do it. Just eliminate that question of if someone can do it. Pay for it for the pastor and for their spouse. Really, I see it as an investment in them as people. We don’t know how long God will have people on journeys, but it’s God’s path, right? You see it as investing in the individual and in the marriage. I encourage people out there to do it, take a step, give it a try, experiment with it, and let us know how it goes.

Jason Daye 
Yeah, that’s awesome, brother. I love your story. It’s really an investment not only in the person. It’s an investment in the kingdom, when you look at it, right? So it’s investing in the kingdom and allowing God. It’s interesting Brian, because most all professional vocations have continuing education, ongoing learning that’s required, and that sort of thing. Really, for pastors, the world is changing dramatically. We know this. We look around us and it’s good, it’s healthy, and it’s helpful to invest in our pastors and ministry leaders. Coaching is a great way to do that, for them to continue to grow, develop, and be stretched by God and live into what God’s calling them to do. So absolutely love that.

Brian Martin 
Yeah, and I would say, don’t be afraid to self-advocate for you, right? You have to take care of yourself. If you expect a church leadership team to just come out and offer you something and kind of recognize that need, it might not happen. Sometimes they need to be trained. Sometimes they need to be educated in that. Don’t be afraid to ask and just throw out there the importance of it. Hey, this coaching is important. I want this. Be a self-advocate for your own needs, because that’s a big deal. That’s a big step for you to make.

Jason Daye 
Yeah, I love that. Good word, brother. Well, thank you for hanging out with us today, Brian, and sharing your story, your personal journey, how coaching has positively impacted you, and how God has grown you through that coaching relationship and continues to grow you through your coaching relationship. So we certainly appreciate that. For those of you who are tuning in, watching along, or listening along, a couple of things we have for you. Just a reminder, if you would like to experience a complimentary coaching session with one of our trusted ministry coaches at PastorServe, you can get more information on that at PastorServe.org/freesession, so be sure to check that out. It’s PastorServe.org/freesession. Then don’t forget about the toolkit for this episode that you and the ministry leaders at your local church can work through. You can find that PastorServe.org/network. In there, there’ll be links to PastorServe and the coaching that we offer, and some insights and some questions for you guys to process through. So be sure to check that out as well. Brian, thank you again for hanging out with us. I certainly appreciate you sharing your story.

Brian Martin 
It was a joy, Jason. Thanks so much for having me.

Jason Daye 
All right. God bless you, brother.

Jason Daye
Now, before you go, I want to remind you of an incredible free resource that our team puts together every single week to help you and your team dig more deeply and maximize the conversation that we just had. This is the weekly toolkit that we provide. And we understand that it’s one thing to listen or watch an episode, but it’s something entirely different to actually take what you’ve heard, what you’ve watched, what you’ve seen, and apply it to your life and to your ministry. You see, FrontStage BackStage is more than just a podcast or YouTube show about ministry leadership, we are a complete resource to help train you and your entire ministry team as you seek to grow and develop in life in ministry. Every single week, we provide a weekly toolkit which has all types of tools in it to help you do just that. Now you can find this at PastorServe.org/network. That’s PastorServe.org/network. And there you will find all of our shows, all of our episodes and all of our weekly toolkits. Now inside the toolkit are several tools including video links and audio links for you to share with your team. There are resource links to different resources and tools that were mentioned in the conversation, and several other tools, but the greatest thing is the ministry leaders growth guide. Our team pulls key insights and concepts from every conversation with our amazing guests. And then we also create engaging questions for you and your team to consider and process, providing space for you to reflect on how that episode’s topic relates to your unique context, at your local church, in your ministry and in your life. Now you can use these questions in your regular staff meetings to guide your conversation as you invest in the growth of your ministry leaders. You can find the weekly toolkit at PastorServe.org/network We encourage you to check out that free resource. Until next time, I’m Jason Daye encouraging you to love well, live well, and lead well. God bless.

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