Finishing Well: Protecting Your Ministry Integrity : Jimmy Dodd

Full-Text Transcript

Jason Daye
Hello, friends, and welcome to FrontStage BackStage. I’m your host, Jason Daye. Every week, I have the privilege of sitting down with a trusted ministry leader, and we tackle a topic all in an effort to help you and pastors and ministry leaders just like you really thrive in both life and leadership. We’re proud to be a part of the PastorServe Network. Each week, not only do we have a conversation, we also create an entire toolkit that you and your local ministry leaders at your church can use to grow more deeply and dig more deeply into the conversation. So, be sure to check that out at PastorServe.org/network. Now, if you’re joining us on YouTube, give us a thumbs up. Also, take a moment to drop your name and the name of your church in the comments below. We love getting to know you better. Whether you’re joining us on YouTube or your favorite podcast platform, please be sure to subscribe and follow so you do not miss out on these conversations. I’m excited to be joined once again by Jimmy Dodd. Jimmy is the CEO and Founder of PastorServe. He has written a number of best-selling books, including Survive or Thrive. At this time, I’d like to welcome Jimmy to the show. Jimmy, welcome, brother.

Jimmy Dodd
Hey. Good to see you, Jason. Great to be with you.

Jason Daye
Good to see you. Good to have you on the show. Jimmy, we just returned not too long ago from an adventure together down in Colombia, where we were serving pastors and their spouses. Really eye-opening. Jimmy, tell us a little bit about that experience for you and for our team. What did you witness?

Jimmy Dodd
Yeah, gosh, it’s one of those things I’ve been asked a lot just about the trip. The thing I usually start off with is I say that it was just very humbling. You know what? It just reminds you that we have what we have by God’s grace. I don’t have what I have because I’m smart or because I work hard. Because we met all these pastors and leaders who are smarter than we are, who work harder than we do, and they’re in a terrible situation because they pastor in Venezuela. But just to see the joy they had, I mean, in the midst of some really difficult circumstances where they minister. I mean, at the threat of jail and at times, actually, I mean, like their life itself, just to do the most basic caring things as pastors. Just to preach God’s word, to care for the poor. I mean, it was just humbling to be with them. It was encouraging. Incredible people, just in a very hard situation. But they’re pastors, I mean, they’re our peers, but we’re just blessed to be in a place where we can openly talk about the Lord Jesus, and they are in a place where they can’t do things quite so openly. But yeah, it was very humbling.

Jason Daye
Yeah, for me, one of the things that really stood out was several of the conversations that I had with couples who shared that most of their family members have moved outside of Venezuela. So, there are some whose parents and siblings had moved to Mexico, some had moved to Spain, some had moved to Colombia, and just kind of left the country because of how difficult things are in Venezuela. Yet, these pastors and their families are staying because they feel a call to minister to people in challenging times, and that’s just mind blowing, because not only are they experiencing what they’re experiencing, but now their family unit, their brothers, sisters, and parents, are leaving the country, and yet, they’re staying behind to serve, which is just incredible. Man, unbelievable commitment there.

Jimmy Dodd
Okay, we heard story after story about how this was not just a soul care retreat for them, it was a vacation for them. You have some great stories. Why don’t you just share one?

Jason Daye
Yeah. So, there was one couple, it was the next to last day, and they stopped me, and in kind of her broken English and my broken Spanish, we communicated a little bit. But she shared that she and her husband, who were there together, got married six years ago, but they never had a honeymoon, and they’ve never had a vacation in six years. And they were so grateful. They had big smiles on their faces. They were so grateful because this was the first time they got to get away and kind of just relax a little bit, and enjoy one another’s company. Not only drawing closer to God, which was important for them, they made that clear, but drawing closer to one another, and just having a special time. They said, This is our honeymoon. This is our vacation. And they were so grateful. It was just so amazing to hear those stories. I was like, tearing up as she was sharing the story because it was so powerful and amazing.

Jimmy Dodd
Gosh, I’ve shared that story with a whole lot of people, and every time it’s like it’s easy to tear up because it’s like, gosh, we have so much, and for them, just to watch them eat three really good meals every day, have some fun as well, and relax. And the bonfire, so many people said, I’ve never had a marshmallow in my entire life. It’s like, wow, incredible.

Jason Daye
Roasted marshmallows around a bonfire while they’re strumming a guitar and singing worship songs in Spanish. I mean, it was just like a little taste of heaven. Unbelievable. What a blessing. Jimmy, so many times we told them, because they were so appreciative, like between every session and around every meal, they were just so grateful. And we told them time and time again, Wow, this is a blessing to us. My heart was full when I left, and I know yours was too, Jimmy. So, it’s awesome. The family of God, no matter where we are, even with differences in cultures, differences in languages, our hearts are knit together in Christ, and it’s a beautiful thing.

Jimmy Dodd
The other big question I left with was, why don’t we have avocados as large as my head, and they do?

Jason Daye
Oh, I wish I could flash that picture up, Jimmy. Jimmy created a photo.

Jimmy Dodd
Oh no, I did not create that. It was my family mocking me.

Jason Daye
Oh, really?

Jimmy Dodd
Oh yeah. It was my family mocking me.

Jason Daye
It was awesome. Anyways, it was an avocado the size of Jimmy’s head, which the avocados were that big and amazingly delicious. It was the size of Jimmy’s head. It had Jimmy’s face superimposed on it. It was pretty awesome.

Jimmy Dodd
I wouldn’t do that to myself, Jason. I mock myself a little bit, but not that. That would be too much.

Jason Daye
Very well. So we’re excited, man, to have the opportunity to do these international trips. God’s just opened up so many opportunities for us at PastorServe. He has blessed us in so many amazing ways, as we’re now into the 26th year of ministry, which is unbelievable. We have Italy coming up. Jimmy, you want to talk a little bit about that? That’s another exciting opportunity.

Jimmy Dodd
Yeah, I will be there with you once again. Amazingly, we were invited to do a soul care retreat for Protestant pastors and Catholic priests together in a very ecumenical soul care retreat, which we understand is unprecedented over there. They were like, This has never been done, but it’s a big deal for the Catholic Church, and we’re thrilled that we were asked to come and we’re going to have a chance to minister to Protestant pastors and the Catholic priests together in the same room and care for their soul because we know that they all need soul care, right? I mean, like they all need soul care, that’s what they have in common. So we’re going to go and base it on the person of Jesus, obviously, and talk about some spiritual practices and some spiritual rhythms, and we have a great worship leader who’s going to fly over from England, and we’re very excited for it. It’ll be an amazing time.

Jason Daye
Yeah, it’s gonna be incredible. And God’s doing so much in Italy right now. If you see news reports and stuff coming out about just the movement of Christ across Italy, and it’s just exciting times. We have our dear friends, who invited us there, very involved in the evangelical movement across Italy, really building bridges with the Roman Catholic Church, and seeing just some amazing things happen. So, we continue to pray for that, and ask you guys to be praying for that along with us. One thing that, in all of these things that we do, not only internationally, but also here at home in the US, really revolves around this idea of caring for our souls, caring for what we call the backstage of our lives. And one of the phrases, Jimmy, that you use at least weekly, if not daily, is this idea that we can never make assumptions about a pastor or ministry leader’s backstage life based upon their frontstage performance. Super important. We’re engaged in some big kind of crisis care and situations here. Talk to us a little bit about that. Unpack that statement, if you would, and let’s dive into this a bit.

Jimmy Dodd
Yeah, gosh, you know what? Really, without exaggeration, I use it every day, because it is such an important piece of what we do, because I think that we do. I think we’re very guilty of this. We make backstage assumptions. We go to a conference or a church, and we hear a great message, a great talk, and we think, wow, that person, that man, that woman, that was so powerful, that was so rich. Man, the Spirit spoke to me. So, we make the assumption that they must be an amazing person. I bet you they have a great marriage. I bet you they’re great parents. I bet they’re generous. We just make these assumptions. And that’s a bad idea. That’s a bad thing, because, as you know, Jason, we’ve worked with hundreds and 1000s of pastors where their frontstage and their backstage don’t match. But, I mean, look, as we walk this through, one thing I think that’s just extremely important is, and gosh, I’m asked this every day as well. How do you not become cynical about these kinds of things? It’s because the overwhelming majority of pastors that we work with are amazing people, and their frontstage and their backstage do match, right? And we have the chance to be with some godly, solid, very integral people who are just huge encouragements to us. And it’s like, wow, what a great thing. So, every time I talk about this, I never want to ever give any sense that this is a normal thing that we see every day. We see it every day, but it’s not normal. It’s just the fact that we get a lot of the bad news a lot of times. Because one thing the PastorServe does is we work in crisis situations, but we work with a lot of people who have a big frontstage, and their backstage does not match. And I think that that’s for a lot of different reasons. I think there are times in which elders, very sadly, actually empower people to continue to minister and to work and to live, when at times, I think the boards know that the frontstage and backstage don’t match, but they don’t want to rock the boat. I mean, like, the church is growing, it’s very successful. In one sense, a pastor becomes a golden goose, and it’s like, let’s just not change this. And you hear, I mean, it’s heartbreaking. Those stories are heartbreaking because at times, there are those who know and they don’t speak up. They just don’t want to change the status quo because the status quo feels pretty good. There are people, there’s money, there’s adulation, there’s resources, and there are all of these things, and it’s a heartbreaking thing. Also, I think that one thing that we see is we see pastors that just carry secrets, which is just one of the most crushing things in the world that you can do is to have a big secret. And it’s interesting, because just over the past month, I’ve been with multiple well-known leaders who’ve had a big secret revealed, and I hear the same thing from every one of them, and it’s always, as strange as this sounds, I’m relieved. I’m relieved because every day I wake up, and the first thing on my mind every day is, Is today the day that they find out my secret? And the fact that it’s out is almost freeing, in a sense, because now I’m going to really find out who my friends are. Now I’m going to find out who are the people that really want to walk with me and just do life with me because they know I’m a mess now. They probably assumed it before, but now they know that I’m a mess, and it’s incredible. But I think that Satan lies to us. He whispers in our ear and says, Man, don’t tell your secrets, because if they really know you, they won’t like you. And I think that’s one of Satan’s biggest lies that we have to get rid of. I mean, that’s just a few thoughts. There are many, many more, but that’s just a few initial thoughts upfront.

Jason Daye
Hey, friends, just a quick reminder that we provide a free toolkit that complements today’s conversation. You can find this for this episode and every episode at PastorServe.org/network. In the toolkit, you’ll find a number of resources, including our Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. This growth guide includes insights pulled from today’s conversation as well as reflection questions, so you and the ministry team at your local church can dig more deeply into this topic and see how it relates to your specific ministry context. Again, you can find it at PastorServe.org/network.

Jason Daye
Yeah, I’m curious, Jimmy, as we’re looking at the many crisis and care support opportunities that PastorServe has had over 26 years now in ministry, there have to be some important learnings that you have gathered and our team has gathered out of going through these different crises. For the average pastor or ministry leader, none of us has scandal on our radar. Like in our schedule for next week or whatever. But what are some things maybe to keep an eye on, some healthy practices in our lives as ministry leaders that you’ve seen, that if these things were in place, these crises would never have likely happened, right?

Jimmy Dodd
Yeah. I mean, the main thing that we also say all the time, Jason, as you know, is that we believe that if you are a really healthy pastor, you’re not isolated. And you’re not isolated if you’ve got six primary key relationships in your life. Boss, trainer, coach, counselor, the mentor, and then just some good friends who can press in and just ask some very hard questions. We believe that for every pastor, it’s just so important that you are very teachable. That you have a coach. It’s important to have a coach. I have a coach, Andy, whom I will meet with next week, and it’s so important for me to meet with Andy, and he will press in and ask me a million questions. And I need that. It’s so important that we have counselors. This week, my counselor was Trevor. He walked me through a lot this week. We also have to have those who just mentor us and just walk through life, and those friends who know everything about us. Those friends who can press in and ask us hard questions. I probably have way too many of those. I probably have 15 friends who feel like they can press in. You, Wade, Brian, and Justin. And I have friends, Andy, Rick, Bruce, Todd, and Dave, and there are others who can press in and ask me hard questions. And they do press in and ask me hard questions, and that’s a really good thing. But we find that when pastors are isolated, and there are a lot of isolated pastors. So I would say, one is, you can’t go through life in isolation, and if you don’t have anybody you know who can really push back on you and just say, Man, I don’t like what I’m seeing right now. I’m just seeing some things. It just caused me some real concern. If you don’t have that type of a person, you’re in trouble, which means you have to be at a point where people can ask you hard questions. We are in the midst of a thing right now, as you know, Jason, with a pastor, a very, very well-known pastor, and as we’ve learned from his board, anytime anybody in the board really presses in on him, there’s defensiveness every time. And it’s like, Hey, I don’t like the way you ask that question. I don’t like your tone of voice when you ask that question. And it’s like, man, if you don’t allow people to ask you some hard questions, if you always push back on them, that’s a sign that you’re going down a dangerous road, and it will not end well for you. That’s just a couple of things.

Jason Daye
Jimmy, on the isolation piece. Why do you think it is? Because it almost seems like it doesn’t make sense that someone who is called into ministry, which is engaging with people in relationship, right? And pointing them towards a relationship in Christ. I mean, ministry is one of the most relational things you can possibly do, and yet we find so many pastors who have closed themselves off and isolated themselves. Why do you think that that happens that way?

Jimmy Dodd
Because we’re broken, sinful people. And there’s that point at which we believe the lie of, well, you’re a pastor, you should be past these things. And it’s the most freeing thing in the world to just be able to say, Listen, I am broken. I am still struggling. You can say I’m struggling with lust, I’m struggling with greed, I’m struggling with jealousy, or I’m struggling with envy. Man, I didn’t have my quiet time this morning. I was just so rushed. I was angry today. I was in a car and I had some road rage. I mean, just to be honest about our brokenness. But I think that there is just this sense in which pastors often times believe that lie of, No, you’re the pastor of the church, you can’t be open about all of your struggles, because people expect you to be up above that. And we have this expectation. Massively unrealistic. And I think pastors, at times, buy that and say, I can’t be honest with my church because if I were honest with my church about all my struggles, I think they’d fire me. I think I’d lose tremendous respect. And I would say, Gosh, it’s worth the risk. Really. It’s worth the risk to be honest and say, Man, I have all sorts of struggles. Man, I’m having a hard time this week. I lost my temper with my wife. I spoke harshly to my kids this week. I was in a restaurant and just felt a bit short-tempered with a waitress. I mean, just be honest about those things and how you come to Jesus every day and say, Lord, it’s a struggle. Life is hard. I need you every moment of every day. But, I think, for some reason, pastors oftentimes feel like that, I can’t be that honest.

Jason Daye
Yeah, that’s a challenge. You know what’s interesting, Jimmy, is this kind of journey to vulnerability. We see this in a lot of pastors who might say or think, I would like to be more open. I’d like to be more vulnerable. Yet, it’s not always something that can just kind of happen, because we’d like to be that way, right? And we find that in a lot of our coaching relationships. We have coaches all over the country, throughout Latin America, and in Haiti who are coaching pastors and ministry leaders. And we see in those coaching relationships that it’s kind of like taking the baby steps, almost. Because coaches are asking questions. They’re pulling things out of us. They’re helping us begin to look the next level down, below the surface. And it seems like those coaching relationships help those that we coach, those pastors that we coach, get to places where they can be more vulnerable with their teams and their local churches. They can begin to open up a little more, but it kind of takes almost like priming the pump a little bit. It’s not something you just wake up and you’re like, Okay, today, I’m going to be vulnerable suddenly, when for years we’ve been closed in, right? So, you’ve written the book basically on these relationships that we’ve discussed. What is it about these relationships, like a coaching relationship, for example, that can help open us up to kind of deeper growth, and not just growth like we see on the frontstage, not just becoming a better “pastor”, but a better Christ-follower, a better husband, and a better father, right?

Jimmy Dodd
Yeah, because there are others out there that will have a perspective on things that I don’t have. So, just to have friends who can ask me questions to help me gain perspective, it’s a game-changer. And there are times in which it’s like, man, for some reason I couldn’t see that. It was right in front of me, big, right? Because we all have blind spots. We all have things where it’s like, I don’t know why Jimmy can’t see this. I can see it, but for some reason, he can’t see it. But if we just give them that chance and just that opportunity to know that there’s grace, that there’s mercy, and that the Gospel is true. If pastors would just step into that, it is just revolutionary. I’ll tell you the one story that comes to mind over and over again, and I’m 99% sure that you were there, and I don’t want to mention the place because I don’t want to give any hints. But you and I were in a coffee shop with Ken and I believe two friends, and this one guy just said, Hey, I don’t really know PastorServe. I just want to hear, if I came to you in crisis, what would you say? And so I just walked through the most basics of the gospel of Man, you know what? I don’t think I’m above you. I don’t think I’m any better. I think that you need God’s grace right now. I think that I have to have God’s grace. I think that you’re in the midst of this crisis. I don’t think that you’re screwed, and I’m not. I think you are screwed. I think I’m screwed, too. That’s why I’m desperate for Jesus. And I just went on and on and just kind of walked through just the basics of the gospel, just the basics of we’re all broken. We all have to have Jesus. And the guy’s like, okay, I get it. And then about 15 minutes after that, I use the restroom, and as I’m walking back, I mean, a guy that’s probably, gosh, you might be 15 feet away, stops me and says, Hey, I’m so sorry. I couldn’t help but overhear what you said. And I’m a pastor of a local church, and I think I need to spend some time with you. That was crazy. And that guy and I have connected multiple times since then. But, it just was like he was so desperate for just the basics of stop believing all the lies of the world. Man, we’re broken, and we need Jesus. And he just overhears that. Talk about your divine appointment. Just incredible. And he’s like, You know what? I don’t know who you are, but I think I need to spend some time with you. Yeah, that’s awesome. It’s just the Holy Spirit doing some crazy work.

Jason Daye
Yep, as the Holy Spirit does.

Jason Daye
At PastorServe, we love walking alongside pastors and ministry leaders just like you. If you want to learn more about how you can qualify for a complimentary coaching session with one of our trusted ministry coaches, please visit PastorServe.org/freesession. You don’t want to miss out on this opportunity. That’s PastorServe.org/freesession.

Jason Daye
And that’s the reality, the good news, the gospel, is the good news for everyone. As pastors and ministry leaders, we preach the good news a lot, but sometimes we struggle with accepting the gospel for ourselves. Because, again, as you said, we tend to think we have to have it all figured out, all put together, and we forget our dependence upon Christ and what that looks like. It’s interesting, thinking all the way back to how we began this conversation, talking about our time in Colombia. One evening, you shared a gospel message with this large group of pastors and their spouses. And man, that, again, preaching the gospel to pastors. It’s like talking about preaching to the choir, right? That type of a feel. But, man, there was such a hunger and a joy, because we all need to hear the good news again and again in fresh ways. That’s so vital for us. Jimmy, as we are thinking about ministry and as we’re thinking about the challenges that every pastor faces in their local church ministry, what are some suggestions beyond having these people in your life, breaking down isolation? What are some other suggestions or recommendations that you would make to the average pastor to help protect them from getting caught up in things, and, as you said, believing the enemy’s lies, those types of things?

Jimmy Dodd
Yeah, gosh, that’s a great question. And here’s an answer that you might say, Jimmy, I think you need to kind of take your own medicine on this. And it’s very, very true. I like to think of myself as a patient person, but if there’s one thing that just causes me to be impatient, it’s if anybody’s lazy, I just don’t have a lot of grace for lazy people. It’s just like, man, you’re not being a good steward of your time. You’re being slothful. It’s like, man, don’t be lazy. And the thing that has really hit me in a hard way is that God has established for us, obviously, lots and lots of rhythms. To overwork and to be, I mean, like a workaholic is as bad as being lazy. I mean, it’s just completely disobeying God’s plan to have these rhythms in life. So it’s like, man, you’re terrible because you’re slothful. And for some reason, it’s like I’m better because I work a 90-hour week, and God just smacking me, saying, No, you’re as bad as the other person. It’s just a different side of the same coin. It is the same sin. It really is the same sin. It’s not being a steward of what God has given me. And I think that there is that bizarre thing in which we applaud ourselves if we work hard. And I know on this podcast listening, there are a lot of workaholics, and I would say that you’ve got to find these rhythms that God has built out. Man, as we work stupid hours, you’re as bad as the lazy sluggard. I mean, I’m as bad. So, God has just convicted me over and over again that I just have to have some balance in life, because there’s only so much I can do, right? I mean, and there’s only you work, you sleep, you eat, you spend time with your spouse, you spend time with your kids, you worship, and you have some hobbies. That’s really it. That’s life. But if you overextend in any area, you’re going to be less in some areas. So if it’s one of those things, if I overextend in work, that means, okay, that week I might eat a lot of fast food, which is not good for me. It might mean that I don’t spend the time with my wife and kids that I should. It might mean that I don’t have time to exercise that week. And it’s like, you know what I mean? God has these rhythms. We have these things built in. I don’t sleep eight hours a night, and I sleep six hours a night for 14 straight nights. And after a while, I’m thinking, Gosh, why am I so short-tempered? Well, because I’ve been going so hard and so fast, I’ve not lived into these basic rhythms. I would say the one thing is just to know that we have to have some balance in our lives. And if there’s one area that’s massively out of balance, you know what? It’s going to have a huge impact on other areas. And you know, it might be other things. It might be, well, you know, I work out for four hours a day. Well, that’s probably not good either because that probably means you don’t spend the time you need to spend at work, or you might not spend the time you need to do with your kids, or whatever it might be. There’s balance in life, and I think we have to work hard to make sure that those things are balanced. So, we see a lot of pastors who don’t have that balance. And I’m very guilty of that, and I realize I’ve got to do a lot better, but I’m taking this whole weekend off. I am, which I’m excited about, Jason.

Jason Daye
I’m excited for you.

Jimmy Dodd
Yeah, thank you very much.

Jason Daye
Yes, yes. I always try to keep an eye on you, Jimmy.

Jimmy Dodd
You’re one of those guys who can press in on me and scream and yell if you need to, it’s all good.

Jason Daye
So, let’s talk a little bit about some of those things that make you thrive. Some of those things for you, Jimmy, personally, I’m thinking in particular, there’s one new rhythm in your life over the last couple of years that started during your sabbatical, that you’re taking a prayer retreat, a silent retreat. That’s kind of a cool thing.

Jimmy Dodd
Oh yeah. That’s been a good thing. So once a year, I go away, and I’m on a retreat at a place called The Cloisters on The Plat, and it’s just four days of silence. And to know that every year, which is like, Dude, I think that’s impossible for you. But it’s phenomenal for me because it’s a chance to go and really listen to what the Holy Spirit is speaking to my heart. And, so far, it’s like, day one, I struggled terribly, and I’m like, What am I doing here? This is ridiculous. And day two, there’s oftentimes a breakthrough, and I’m hearing God say very, very important things to me. But, just to find more time to be quiet and to listen. Yeah, it’s just so great to read in the Word in the morning, to read like a devotional, if you have one. I spend time in Lectio Divina, which is a phenomenal app that’s by our friend, Pete Gregg. That’s just a great app. Those are just really good, good rhythms for me. But I found there also has got to be a rhythm of being quiet and still, just listening, taking some deep breaths, and just saying, God, these are the things that my soul needs to hear from you today. Lord, I’m feeling insecure today. I just need to be affirmed in your love and your grace towards me, and just taking deep, slow breaths and just learning to rest in Jesus. That’s been enormous for me.

Jason Daye
Yeah, that’s awesome. Jimmy, as we kind of talk through this, it’s almost like we talk about, okay, so how can we as ministry leaders avoid burning out or avoid getting tripped up and falling into scandal of some sort, or moral failing, and all this? And the things we talk about are all things that are not really rocket science when it comes down to it. It’s not like there’s just something crazy. It’s like you need to have people in your life who are willing to ask you hard questions. You need to be open and honest with them, right? You need to have good rhythm in your life. Don’t be a workaholic, don’t be lazy, but have rhythm. You need to be engaging with God and with the Holy Spirit, and making that time. There are all these things. Intentional time with your spouse, with your family, they’re all these things that just all make sense. And yet, Jimmy, we fail all too often in these things. Why do we struggle with things that seem so obvious that we, as pastors, are encouraging other people to embrace, and yet, sometimes it is so challenging for us?

Jimmy Dodd
Yeah, because we’re broken sinners and we are desperate for Jesus every day. I think it’s one of those things that if we could get these things all down pat, we would probably just think, man, I’ve kind of got my life together now, and I mean, still every day just to wake up and say, Lord, I am desperate for you today. I can’t do it today. I’m going to have conversations today. I want to be asked questions today. I don’t have the answers. I don’t have these things. Father, keep me in a place of desperation upon you. It’s true, you are the vine, I am the branches. If you’re gone, I’m in big, big trouble. And so just that daily longing for Christ to use me, to speak through me, I think has to be there every day. And the fact that I know that I mess up every day, that I fail every day, and that I do stupid things every day, keeps me coming back every day and just crying out to God and saying, Man, I do not have this figured out. And even though, man, I’ve been at this for a long time, even though I don’t think I can be shocked anymore because I think I’ve heard every sin that’s ever been committed. Although that’s an interesting point, I think because we’ve heard some new things, just because of AI, because of AI video, and all sorts of things. It’s like, Oh man, it feels like a new day, as far as just the depth of sin, which is a whole nother discussion. But it just keeps me every day saying, Lord, we need you. And I think just to wake up in that dependent spirit. But just to also know, Lord, that there are truths this day. God loves me. God cares for me. God will never leave me. And, as you spoke about in Colombia, and did a phenomenal job, Lord, I haven’t done anything yet today, and yet you put your favor upon me, and you’ve said to my heart this morning at the start of the day before I’ve done one thing, You’re my son. I’m proud of you. With you, I am well pleased. And so your love for me is not going to be based upon everything I do this whole day. I mean, it’s right there. It’s just based upon your kindness towards me, your grace, and mercy. And I have to believe that every day and just live into that every day, and that makes a massive difference.

Jason Daye
Yeah, absolutely. Well, as always, great to sit down and chat with you and let you share your heart. As we’re closing down, you have the ears and eyes of pastors and ministry leaders. What words of encouragement would you like to leave with them, Jimmy?

Jimmy Dodd
First of all, thanks. Thanks to all of those pastors who are so faithful, and every day you just show up. We’re so grateful for you. It’s a hard calling. It’s a hard calling, and I would say just continue to show up and make sure that you surround yourself with those who can speak truth to you. And if you’re starting to get popular, just understand that, as a pastor of a church, people want to be your friend, and because they want to be your friend, you will lose more and more people who will tell you the truth, because there’s that fear if I tell you the truth, you might not want to be my friend anymore. So, if I push back on you, you might say, Well, that was awkward for you to push back on me. I don’t think I want to spend any more time with you. You’ve gotta have people in your life that will tell you the truth. Don’t ever get so big and so popular that you can’t have people who say, Man, I love you, but you are not being a good dude right now. You’re doing some stupid things, and because I love you, I can call this out. And those are people that you need to surround yourself with. People who love you enough to speak deep truth. Because if you don’t have truth-tellers, you’re in big trouble. And gosh, as you know, Jason, we work with some names that would be very, very well known. And it’s like, what’s the common thread in the well-known people? Because they have lost their truth-tellers in their life. Because it’s fun to be friends with them, right? It’s fun to be friends with famous people, so let’s don’t push back on those people. But man, those people lose truth-tellers, and then they walk down crazy roads, and nobody loves them enough to say, Dude, this is not a good thing for you. So, I would say just to have those people in your life that speak truth and keep preaching the gospel to yourself, and keep preaching the gospel to others. That would be my main encouragement to pastors. And keep listening to this podcast because it’s flipping phenomenal. Last night, I was on a Zoom call with some great pastors up in the Northwest, and they said, You know what, we love your podcast. I mean, Jason does a phenomenal job, and they had so many guests. They were like, Man, we just heard the one with this person. So it’s like, okay, this isn’t just fluff. They know who’s been on the show, and they said it’s absolutely incredible. It is so good. Keep doing what you’re doing. So, to those guys in the Northwest, this is a shout-out to you. Justin, who’s the main guy there in the Northwest. But, man, they love this show. They love it, and it is a powerful tool. And so I’d say to anybody, man, check out the toolbox every week. There are some incredible resources here that pastors need to use for their good.

Jason Daye
Absolutely. Well, thank you, brother. I love that shout-out, and I love that we have the opportunity to provide this as a free resource to pastors and ministry leaders, not only across the US, but around the world, tuning in. And with each episode, we do create a toolkit, as Jimmy mentioned, that has a ton of different resources in there, including the Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. It gives you an opportunity to dig more deeply into the conversation that Jimmy and I just had. You can find that at PastorServe.org/network. So be sure to check that out and use it with your team at your local church. We’ll also have links there to Jimmy’s books and other resources we have available for you from PastorServe. Jimmy, love you, brother. Appreciate you. Fun to hang out, and as we’re recording this, just so everyone knows, this will be released later, but tonight, your Chiefs play.

Jimmy Dodd
That’s why I have on the red shirt, because it’s Red Friday in Kansas City. Every Friday before the Chiefs’ game is Red Friday.

Jason Daye
So, your Chiefs are playing. It’s gonna be a good weekend for you, I’m sure, as the NFL season kicks off.

Jimmy Dodd
Pray that God will help me with my pride because it’s hard to be humble when you’re a Kansas City Chiefs fan. There’s a lot of winning. There are a lot of trophies.

Jason Daye
Here we go. We’ll be praying for you, brother.

Jimmy Dodd
Thanks, Jason.

Jason Daye
All right, man, God bless you.

Jason Daye
Here at PastorServe, we hope you’re truly finding value through these episodes of FrontStage BackStage. If so, please consider leaving a review for us on your favorite podcast platform. These reviews help other ministry leaders and pastors just like you find the show, so they can benefit as well. Also, consider sharing this episode with a colleague or other ministry friend. And don’t forget our free toolkit, which is available at PastorServe.org/network. This is Jason Daye, encouraging you to love well, live well, and lead well.