Planning a Ministry Sabbatical? Helpful Tips & Mistakes to Avoid : Jimmy Dodd

Full-Text Transcript

What can we learn from the sabbatical experiences of other ministry leaders that can help our own sabbatical be even more refreshing and meaningful?

Jason Daye
In this episode, I’m joined by Jimmy Dodd, founder and CEO of PastorServe. For over 24 years, PastorServe has been coming alongside of pastors, ensuring that no Pastor walks alone. Jimmy has served as a church planter, a lead pastor, and a teaching pastor. He’s written a number of books, including the best-selling Survive or Thrive: Six Relationships Every Pastor Needs. Together, Jimmy and I take a close look at the sabbatical that Jimmy recently completed. Jimmy shares from his own experiences about how he prepared for sabbatical, what he encountered during his sabbatical, and even some mistakes that he wants to encourage others to avoid. Are you ready? Let’s go.

Jason Daye
Hey, friends, and welcome to yet another insightful episode of FrontStage BackStage. I’m your host, Jason Daye. And each and every week, I have the honor of sitting down with a trusted ministry leader and diving into a conversation on an effort to help you in ministry leaders just like you embrace healthy, sustainable rhythms for both your life and ministry. FrontStage BackStage is proud to be a part of the PastorServe network. And not only do we have a conversation every week, but we also provide a toolkit for you and the ministry team at your local church to dig more deeply into the topic that we discuss. And you can find that at PastorServe.org/network, where you’ll find additional resources, including a ministry leaders growth guide. And again, this is an opportunity for you to really dive into what we discussed in today’s conversation. So be sure to check that out at PastorServe.org/network. Now, at PastorServe, we love coming alongside of ministry leaders and pastors. And our team is offering a complimentary coaching session. So, if you’d like to learn more about that, you can find those details at PastorServe.org/freesession, so please be sure to check that out as well. Now, if you’re following us on YouTube and watching us today, please take a moment to give us a thumbs up and then drop your name, the name of your church in the comments below. We love getting to know our audience better, and we’ll be praying for you and for your ministry. And whether you are watching on YouTube or listening on your favorite podcast platform, please be sure to subscribe to follow you do not want to miss out on any of these conversations. Super excited for today’s conversation because we have a returning guest who many of you know quite well, dear friend Jimmy Dodd. Jimmy, welcome to the show.

Jimmy Dodd
Jason, good to see you, my friend.

Jason Daye
Good to see you. Man. It’s been it’s been a while, and there’s a reason it’s been a while you haven’t been on the show. And we’re gonna get into that in today’s conversation. But it’s good to see you and excited to, to really what we’re doing today is we’re really kind of digging out of you from some recent experiences that you’ve had. And allowing us, all of our viewers, to learn from your experiences, which is always great whenever we can tap into someone else’s knowledge. So excited about that. And so, today, we are going to be talking about sabbaticals, and specifically, you have agreed to let us kind of put your sabbatical under the microscope, you recently returned from a sabbatical, and we are going to dive in and really take a look at it and see what we can learn. And we appreciate your vulnerability, your openness, your honesty, I think it’s got to be a gift to our audience. So, thank you for jumping in and joining us on this ride today.

Jimmy Dodd
Great to be here, and I kind of thought I wasn’t on the podcast because you blackballed me because I’m a Liverpool fan cheering for the right team.

Jason Daye
Oh, man

Jimmy Dodd
You’re on the right screen for Manchester United. We could talk about the power of friendship how it’s overcome.

Jason Daye
Yeah.

Jimmy Dodd
Even mad differences. That’s what we’re talking about today?

Jason Daye
No, no, no, because depending on how the season continues, there will probably be a lot of prayer around friendships. But…

Jimmy Dodd
We’ll keep this to the end of the season,

Jason Daye
We’re willing to take any win we can take, even if it’s against a freshly promoted team will take that win in which we got this past weekend. So hey…

Jimmy Dodd
Good for you guys. Right. Okay, sabbaticals. Yes.

Jason Daye
All right. Yeah. Back to sabbaticals. Okay, so Jimmy, you recently returned, you had a sabbatical this summer. And first, let’s talk about the importance and value of sabbaticals. Every time we talked about sabbaticals, we want to remind and encourage pastors and ministry leaders about the value of a sabbatical. So, Jimmy, let’s start there. Why? Why are sabbaticals important?

Jimmy Dodd
Yeah, because I think that we have built in this rest that we have to have, I think that we have these rhythms in life. I think that they’re from God. And I think that He has just created these very, very natural rhythms, that we have to take days of rest, we just have that we just have to have days of Sabbath. And I think we have to have times of deep, deep rest. And I confess to you that I’ve been terrible at that. I’ve been absolutely terrible. And I’ve had a million reasons why I have not sabbatical. I just have to keep going and keep the ministry going in everything else. And God has just laid some deep conviction on me that as I talk about this with so many pastors, and yet I have not sabbatical that we just thought I’ve got to plan a sabbatical. Because I think that I mean, like, in one sense, I believe it’s disobedience. Now, I know that that’s easily said because there’s a lot of pastors who would say I would love to have a sabbatical if my church would like allow it. So I’m not trying to, you know, to heap on any shame or guilt because I know that there’s lots of cases in which it’s just not possible. But I also know there are cases in which it is possible. And yet, people just don’t do it. And so I just knew that just to be true to God’s rhythms that he has created in my life and in the world, that I needed to take some extended time and rest for the first time in 42 years of vocational ministry. So, I was overdue.

Jason Daye
Yeah, I would say so, I would say so. And the good news is, you took your sabbatical. And those of us who were left behind did not, you know, destroy the ministry while you’re gone. Imagine that.

Jimmy Dodd
What was very humbling, because actually, you fixed a lot of things while I was gone, which is a part of a sabbatical, you’ve got to be realistic about is, hey, what happens when things go really, really well while you’re gone? And, yeah, I think that that’s a big thing. I think that we have to make sure we talk about here.

Jason Daye
Yeah, yeah, no, that’s good. That’s good to me. Now, one of the things that is, as you kind of mentioned, there that some people find themselves in a situation where they feel a sabbatical is not even possible. And there may be some, maybe extreme circumstances where that’s true. Right. But I think you and I both agree, we’ve had these conversations before that. There are times I remember, for myself, even as a ministry leader as a pastor of a local church, that we really could take a sabbatical. We just make a lot of excuses as to why we can’t, right?

Jimmy Dodd
Sure. Because we’re indispensable. Right? Because things will just, you know, not go well if I’m gone. They might even crumble if I’m gone. Massive amounts of excuses, which are almost always not true. But I think that you know, I think that there’s a small toolbox with Satan, and a huge lie is that he whispers to us and says, You know what, you can’t leave. You’re indispensable. You’ve got to stay around, they have to have you, and those things just aren’t true.

Jason Daye
Yeah, yeah. And, even beyond the indispensable argument, which none of us would like to admit that we might think that way. Right. Although, oftentimes, we might. But they’re, you know, I think of so many solo pastors, for example, right? They feel like, hey, realistically, I can’t just go and take off on sabbatical because not that I’m indispensable, but I just don’t have others necessarily around me that can help keep things rolling. So Jimmy, what do you say to those situations where it’s not just, you know, I feel like the church can’t make it without me. But you know, those other hindrances are kind of mental blocks, we have thinking, oh, there’s, there’s no way we can figure this out to even make this time away possible.

Jimmy Dodd
Well, yeah, I think you’d have to be a lot more, I believe, just overall, just very, very creative in those times. And I think there are ways that you can do it, I think that there’s ways that you can ask others to step up. And I mean, like it might be if you could step up for a week, and if you could step for a week, and you can step for a week, I think that there’s ways that we have to be really, really creative and really trusting of other people. But I think that there are ways that we can make this work. I think, in some cases, it’s gonna take a lot more work. It’s gonna take a lot more prep, but I think it’s possible.

Jason Daye
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I’ve heard pastors who have actually reached out to other larger churches that have multiple staff members there and just explain, Hey, I’m, you know, I have this opportunity. I’m working on stop training for me to take a sabbatical because I haven’t for, you know, 42 years or whatever it might be. And even talking to them and saying, Hey, will you loan, you know, your your, you know, student pastor or one of your associate pastor? There’s within if you talk to enough churches nearby, right? You can get, you know, four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks, whatever covered. So I love what you said being creative because I think that’s part of it. So we want to encourage those of you who are watching or listening long, regardless of what church you’re in was rural, urban, whether it’s a megachurch, whether it’s a, a normal, typical church in the US, at least, you know, a church of 200 or less, that’s not unusual. If you’re a solo pastor, whatever it might be, just to think creatively, and be open and prayerful, and in look at how you can carve out this some time for sabbatical. So okay, Jimmy, so one of the things that you really leaned into, and this is this is something that that we talked about a lot at  PastorServe as well, and the pastor’s that we work with, is the idea of preparing well, for a sabbatical. And, what goes into that and kind of the thoughtfulness of the sabbatical? So talk to us a little bit about your journey on the kind of the preparation side.

Jimmy Dodd
Yeah, so I think I did a lot of things, right, I think I did some things very, very wrong. So I think the first thing you have to understand is, is that there is a baseline, I believe that you have to have enough time to have actually sabbatical. So I would say a huge part of the prep is just to make sure that you have time blocked off the thing that I hear all the time, which makes me crazy, honestly, as I’ll talk to pastors who say, I just got back from a great one month sabbatical. And all say, that’s a wonderful extended vacation. But that’s not a sabbatical. Because I think it’s actually impossible to take a one month sabbatical. Because I think a part of that sabbatical is that your brain in your mind, you just slow down enough where you’re able to really disengage. And I think it takes time to disengage. Because we’re pastors, we’re not, we’re not on some big factory line making widgets. We can’t just walk off the factory line, and when that’s like, well, that’s gone. I don’t even have to think about that. We do think about things. We think about people, we think about situations, and we think about crises in our church and marriage and on and on. And it takes time to unwind from that. Now. I mean, look, it took me and it was crazy. And there’s I think some reasons why because it was bad prep, it took me about six weeks, to really feel like my mind, and my body had slowed down enough. Where I’m really disengaged, I’m actually on sabbatical, that took me like six weeks. And so I think it takes at least a few weeks, at least a couple of weeks, just to really kind of slow, you’re just to slow everything down. And then, once you’re about to come back, it’s very natural that your mind re-engaged as you start to think the things I need to do, and you start to have a list. So I think so I think it’s impossible in the month, because I think that you come down maybe the fastest you could do that you can come down is maybe two weeks, although I think oftentimes it’s three or four and then you start to come back. So I mean, to be gone for a month, that’s a great extended vacation. But that’s not a sabbatical. And I think it’s I think it’s really hard. I think also in two months, I think the three months is almost a baseline, just a baseline, you’ve got to be gone at least three months to do the things that I think that everybody needs to do on sabbatical. I think you need to rest I think you need to play, I think you have to have some really, really extended times with your spouse with your kids. I think you need to have some time to be quiet and just a really, really listen to God. And I think just to do those basic things, it’s going to take at least three months, because you don’t want to spend this extended time with your spouse and kids in the first week when your mind is still completely engaged in the church. And then you’re just about to come back off a sabbatical, I think you need to kind of come down and then do those things, and then like you start to come back. So the the huge thing for me as far as prep was that my board graciously gave us or me a nice, nice to extend the time, it was about three and a half months, which was very gracious to them, because that gave me time to do the things I had to do. And so and then I mean like the next thing that was huge for me as far as prep, which I would strongly recommend, is I had a sabbatical coach that really walked me through I mean, very, very diligently. We met multiple times, just to talk about the goals of the sabbatical and my schedule, and you know, what, Is this realistic? And how much will they disengage? And will I and he just asked me all of these very, very powerful questions. And so a coach for me, was absolutely indispensable. It was huge and made it much much better. So I strongly recommend I had a great, great coaches named is Ed Roths. And, I mean, he was phenomenal. I mean, I mean, he was tough on me. I mean, like, I had assignments, I had some homework. It’s like you got to fit. You know, I’m and I want to know, the goals, the schedule, your plan all of these things. It’s like, wow. But it was extremely helpful. So that was a huge part of the preparation.

Jason Daye
Yeah, I love that. And with a coach, one of the things that’s helpful, and this is just coaching in general is that coaches ask us questions that we would not necessarily ask ourselves, when you think to ask ourselves, you know, that’s the, that’s the beauty of coaching. And, and so I’m sure it as you and I have talked, that there are things and we encountered things that a PastorServe, that came out of your coaching with Edie, as you were preparing to leave, like, how are we going to communicate certain things? When are we going to communicate things? How do we shut off communications to you, so that you weren’t being bombarded, you know, with texts or whatever, while you were trying to disengage and all that, so that that idea of a coach is really going to help you think about some things and prepare in a deeper, richer way. So that your experience on your sabbatical can be as full of meaningful, you know, as it can be. And so that, I think, is one of the beauties of coaches. Now, Jimmy share a little bit because you kind of broke down some different segments of things that that you encourage every pastor to experience during their sabbatical. And, and there a lot of conversations around what those experiences might be, but there’s some core elements that you shared. One big one, I know that, that you’ve talked about and shared with our team, is, is the idea of your relationships, your spouse and your kids. Right? If you’re if you’re married, if you have children. Talk to us a little bit about, about that, and about that, what you experienced in that. And, and, you know, what kind of came out of of focusing on, you know, the closest relationships in your life.

Jimmy Dodd
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, that’s a great question. And I promise I will answer that question. But let me back up just a bit here.

Jason Daye
Sure.

Jimmy Dodd
Because I think that there’s a whole aspect of prep that I was absolutely terrible at and I think that there’s times in which we learn, because we make just massive mistakes. And it’s like, okay, the big lessons in life I’ve learned, not because I did that well, because I just blew it terribly. And I learned from it, I made a massive, massive mistake in prep. I think that it’s a lot like like a fast I think you need to wean yourself into I think a sabbatical, I think you need to prep yourself by starting to slow down before you start a sabbatical. So I would say I would really, really encourage you that in the month, before you start a sabbatical, start to work just like maybe like some less hours every week. So if you work, I hope you don’t, if you work 80 hours a week, well, then three weeks out, work 60 In two weeks out work 40 In one week, as you’re going to work, work, work work, like actually 20 Just and just kind of work into it very, very gradually, I think that you need to not make any big, big decisions. I think you need to not make any big staff hires, I mean, like in the month before you leave, but you need to work into it very slowly, so the ones that actually starts, it feels very, very natural. And as you know, Jason, I did exactly the opposite. I did it in less than I’m embarrassed about it now. But I made some massive decisions on staff, I had to raise a lot of money right before I left, I had to do all of these things. And I did not scale down. I mean, like I ramped up, I did exactly the opposite. And I ramped up, and it felt like I jumped off a cliff and felt like I it’s like, you know, I’m gonna work like you know, 90 hours in this last week and work every night and cram in every last minute phone call and make sure everything is you know, there. And I jump off the cliff. And I think that that’s why it took me six weeks to really unwind because I think if if I had been wise and worked into it, I think it would have started in about two weeks. But I this was extremely unwise, I would say you have to scale into it, you have to you have to pace yourself into it. You can’t just you know, so I’m gonna give I have a like a big extended fast. You can’t have a steak the night before. That’s good. That’s gonna be the worst thing in the world. So it’s like the week before. I mean, you’re gonna start to eat less and less than the last day before long, fast. I mean, like, you might have a yogurt and that’s it. And the day before, maybe you had some mashed potatoes into yogurt. And that’s it. You have to work into it. And I did not work into it. It’s I would say that that was a terrible, terrible mistake in my prep. So,

Jason Daye
Yeah. I think one thing that Jimmy is, and we can all relate to this. I think all of us. Whenever you’re just going to be out for vacation, maybe a week, right? What happens is you’re leading up to the like, literally the week before you’re going on vacation, the three days before the day of typically, you are going crazy, trying to get as many things finished up wrapped up taken care of, you know, I mean, get all that off of your plate. So you can because you’re gonna be gone for a week, right? So it’s that kind of same mentality except magnified. Because Jimmy, you knew you were going to be on sabbatical for three and a half months, therefore same type of thing. So imagine, imagine magnifying that we can all kind of resonate with experience. I’m sure we’ve all had that. Are we getting ready to go on vacation, and we just try, you know, and we wear ourselves out.

Jimmy Dodd
Lots and lots of brides are sick on their honeymoon.

Jason Daye
Oh, right, exactly.

Jimmy Dodd
They’ve gone nonstop doing everything until the night before. And then they have this letdown, and they’re sick. And the husband says, Well, I had a disappointing honeymoon. Well, you have to pace things out. You have to plan thing, it’s the same thing actually on a sabbatical. That’s you can’t do everything at the last minute, you’ve got to be able to pace it out, and slow it down. And if you don’t, you’re probably, I mean like you will probably be sick, if physically, because you just stop the work and you just let down and then all of a sudden, just your whole body says, Okay, now I’ve got to get sick just to just to care for itself.

Jason Daye
And yeah, no, that’s good. That’s helpful. So let’s get on the preparation side, two, two big things to look out for. One is to pace yourself as you go into the sabbatical. The others do not make any major decisions, you know, whatever that might be in your church or ministry setting with no major decisions, you know, a couple of weeks or maybe even a month leading out. Right. Okay, good stuff. Great. Thank you for jumping in on that. Love that now, back to your wife and your kids. Let’s talk about that. What talk about some of those, you know, very close relational experiences and the importance and value of nurturing those in in during a sabbatical.

Jimmy Dodd
Yeah, it was so important for me to have some time some extended time with with my wife. And, and it’s one of those things I’m not proud of the fact that this is the way it’s work. But it’s just our life, because our life is crazy, because I’ve got kids from age 37 to 20. So there’s a big, big age, but no, that’s not right. 37 to actually 18 Sorry, so Oh, somebody just forgot about my youngest, which I do sometimes. But anyway, when he was still there, it’s a big, big age span. So we’ve always had kids at home. I mean, we’ve had kids at home, forever. So each year, we have a vacation. Well, if you only have one vacation a year, you’re gonna take your kids. And so it’s just been hard for us financially as far as time to find time with just my wife. And a huge thing for me was I want to go away with just Sally and just have time to just really reconnect. And I’m telling you what the high point of my sabbatical was, we had a phenomenal vacation, just the two of us. And it was our first vacation alone in like 10 years, which I encourage you, everybody should have I mean, vacations, tried to do everything you can, at least every year. And it’s just was really, really hard for us. But we had a wonderful vacation together and just to be away from the kids, and also ministry, just all those demands. And just to reconnect, it was. It was wonderful. I mean, it was being it was just so great to just relax together, have so many great conversations, have some fun meals together. And there was a church that was very gracious to us and says, Hey, we have a place on the Oregon coast, it’s yours. Just go and just stay there. It was like, really, incredibly kind to us. And so that was just an incredibly fun, just relaxing time. It was just very real, very important. And then then my kids and I had some great extended times together. I mean, a lot more time than usual. So I saw I mean, like they think the kid you know, the key is everybody says so like, you know, was it a good sabbatical? And I said, Yes, I know it was because my wife and my kids would say say it was a good sabbatical. So if they say it was good, you know what, I know? It was good. Yeah. It got to spend a lot of time with them, which was glorious.

Jason Daye
That’s good. That’s awesome. And so very important component of a sabbatical. Hum, talk to us now about oftentimes when people think of sabbatical you know, they immediately their mind goes to you know, you’re in a cave and in God shows up right like that’s what your sabbatical is, hopefully get to rest in that cave, but it’s kind of those those real God experiences. I know that you had some special things happen during your time. And again, I think it’s you know, it’s, it’s very wise to remind people that oftentimes there is that time of coming down, out of the busyness of ministry, you know, to have a space and a time where you know that deeper movement is. So share with us about the kind of the God encounter.

Jimmy Dodd
Yeah, well, you know, for me, I think that I wanted to feel free to not feel shame for doing lots and lots and lots of ministry things because I think that there is pressure to okay, you’re on sabbatical. So that means you need to go see five, you know, big, big ministries and just have some questions so you guys can grow. And you need to read all of these ministry books, and you need to catch up on all the ministry podcasts. And it’s kind of like, you know, that that kind of feels like work that kind of feels like, I’m really not on you that feels like I’m not actually on sabbatical. And so I tried to just release myself and say, Okay, I don’t want to feel guilty if I don’t do it. Listen, I was told to read so many books, you’ve got to catch up on this book in this book. And I read about three really great ministry books. I read like nine novels. Yes. I’m so far behind the novels. And that you know that they’re just a novels, I thought, I would love to read these. So I read some great, great novels, I read a few that I would say weren’t great, but I read some great novels. And it was just so relaxing, it was just so good. But I knew that I it’s like, okay, I’d like to do some things with God, that would be completely completely out of my rhythm. And one thing I knew that would be really good would be to have multiple days in a row, where I was just absolutely silent. So I went to a place called the Cloisters on the Platte, which is up in Gretna, Nebraska. And it’s a retreat center, and you are silence for multiple days. And it was an incredibly powerful time with VBA. Because everybody say, you know what, you can’t do it, you’re way too much of a social person. And that means you have meals with like all these men. So actually, it’s a group of about 80 men. And nobody speaks. I mean, at meals, at breaks on walkways, as you pass each other. You don’t say a word for about four days. And everybody says, You’re not going to be able to make it, you really can’t do it. Actually, it’s about three days. I mean, like, it’s parts of four days. But all in all, it’s about three days. And day one, very frustrating for me, day two, very challenging, day three, I felt like there were just some spiritual breakthroughs, in which I really took time to listen to God and what He was really speaking to my heart. And it was and I don’t want to overstate this. But I mean, like, I think it was life changing, just to be able to have some things that I’ve had in my heart for a while that I could just let go of and say, Lord, I don’t want to hold these things, these things could cause me to be bitter. And to be angry, I didn’t want to just want to let these things go. And God really met me in some very powerful encounters. And it was a really, really rich experience, just to be there, to pray, to be quiet, to read and, just listen to God. It wasn’t there for like a bunch of fellowship, because you’re not speaking with these other men, they’re all there. And you have meals with them. But you’re not speaking. And it was incredibly powerful, just to kind of turn off that piece of your body, your mouth, and just really open up yours and say, God, speak for your servant is listening. And it took about three days to really start to listen. But it wasprofound. And what’s really, really, really nice about this place is once you’re in, that’s your week, for the rest of your life as long as you go. And so I think I’ll go back every year. I mean, like, I think I’ll go back every year and I have a spot every year as long as I go. And it was a profound spiritual experience that I need to make just a regular part of my rhythms in life.

Jason Daye
Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. I’d love to hear that. So the other one the other components we talked about your, you know, time with family relationships, encounters with God and then there’s the whole kind of just rest component right? The you know, what, what does what does that mean for for us, you know, rest of mental rest, emotional rest, physical rest, spiritual rest. So, Jimmy, you said you toss in some nuggets. I mean, I’m some that rest is with family. Right? Some of that rest is with God. You talked about opportunity to read some novels, you know, I mean, things that were tied to some you know, Ministry projects you’re working on, which is that rest. What are some other ways that you just experienced moments of rest during that time?

Jimmy Dodd
Yeah, you know what, it was just a lot of walks, I mean, lots of walks with my dog, who’s on my feet right now a lot, lots of walks with my dog. And it was almost like God just said, Hey, you know, you’re not very good at this. So why don’t I give you a case of COVID. And I want to put you on your back for for a week. And you’re just going to rest. And so I think that I always feel just a little bit of this guilt of alright, I can watch some TV. I can’t watch a lot of TV. I just don’t have any merge in my life. And, gosh, I can’t start any long like, you know, show. I mean, that week, I had COVID. I watched quarterback, I watched you Jack Ryan, I watched like the watch like The Lincoln Lawyer, I watched like four the whole series in one week. Like, I haven’t watched as much in a year, I’m knocking them out here. And it was okay. And I thought, you know, I’m not going to feel any guilt over this. I’m on my back. I’ve got COVID and it’s almost like God said, just relax. It’s okay. Okay, just relax and just watch these things. And it was it was a joy, to just be able to like watch quarterback, which is a fun show, which is a really fun show, you know about these three guys. And they all three say they’re believers. And one was clearly a believer. Anyway, it was just a fun show to watch. And when I say clearly, I mean, that would be Kirk Cousins. I pray for Patrick Mahomes. Anyway. But it was just great just to be able to have you know, these times of walk and then there were times I was just on my back for a little bit. And God says it’s okay. Just Just rest and relax.

Jason Daye
Yeah, that’s good. That’s helpful. Okay, so we’re kind of winding down. It’s been great for you to kind of let us get a peek under the hood of your sabbatical experience. Not everyone has to go through that. And, you know, kind of open that up to everyone. But we appreciate that you do because of your heart for pastors and ministry leaders, which we all know about. What are if you were to say, hey, here are a handful of things that you definitely want to make sure you do here, handful things that you want to avoid. And it could be reiterating some of the things from this conversation, but just to kind of like, you know, funnel it down. Just some quick insights, for pastors to hang on to maybe to jot down and say, okay, as I’m planning my sabbatical, I want to hold on to these things. What would those be?

Jimmy Dodd
Yeah, Gosh, there, man, there’s actually a lot more. So I would say you have to be very clear on what is your ox that falls in I mean, like a ditch, the just because it’s in Scripture, it’s like, okay, if your ox falls into a ditch on the Sabbath, you’re gonna pull out the ox, right? And so I just had to be very clear on what is my ox that’s in the ditch. And in other words, we have calls all the time, time to PastorServe, there’s crisis after crisis. Is there any crisis that would cause me to say, That’s my ox in the ditch, and I want to come out of my sabbatical for a day or two or three, and pull the socks out of the ditch, and then go back into my sabbatical. And I was very clear on, I mean, like, I have to have some guidelines. So there’s a, small group of men that I’ve worked with, very closely my whole life. There’s a small group of pastors that I’ve been very, very, very connected with. And there was one of those pastors that went through a huge crises in the midst of my sabbatical. And I thought to myself, Okay, I think that this is my ox in the ditch. And I think that this guy is so close to me, I have to serve Him. So in the midst of my sabbatical, I went to Nashville and spent three days there. And it was really, really important days, just to love this brother. And just to care for him, because we’re very, very close. So I think that you have to be very clear on what’s that for you. And just make sure that that’s established before you start because if you don’t establish that, then everything will be the ox in the ditch. It’s like, well, I have an elder and he’s in the hospital, I have to go back and oh, my gosh, here’s a huge wedding that I should probably be doing, I should probably go back and you all you’re just gonna go back for everything. So I think you have to be very careful there. And then I would say, You know what, you’ve got to trust your leadership team. And you’ve got to know that when you come back because you were gone, things will be different, things will be very, very different. And I tell you what I dealt with the situation years ago that broke my heart. I dealt with a guy that was gone on like a really, I mean, like a long sabbatical was like six months he had three staff members that stepped up, I mean, they stepped up. I mean, like, I watched them, I coached them, they did incredible. They all of a sudden really lead well, and they were at the elder meetings and speaking with the staff, and they just did a great job. And he came back in immediately put them back in their same roles they were, I mean, like, before he left, he’s like, you’re not going to be in charge of staffing anymore, you’re not going to come down to like all of these meetings, and he put them right back where they were. And it was like they stepped up, allow them to, I mean, they should stay in those roles. This just allows you to do more things and new things. He could not accept that. He put them right back in those roles. And within three months, all three staff members had quit, which really didn’t blame them. It was like, and so and so I would say you have to, you have to come back with open eyes, ask a lot of questions. And it’s like, okay, if my team really stepped up, how can I keep them in those roles? And then I can actually find some more things to do. And I think you have to ask that question. So you have to have trust in your staff; you have to know they can lead well, but also just be wise enough to know that they will step up. And you got to ask the question, who stepped up and did well, and so PastorServe, I mean, like we left, and I was a decision maker. And I come back, and it’s different. And we now work, you know, very much in a team, because it’s like, we had three staff that stepped up and led the ministry well, I mean, like beyond well. And so I’d be a fool to not allow those three people to stay in those roles and continue to lead the ministry. And I think you just have to be smart in that be just open up your eyes, and ask a lot of questions, and come back slowly. So go, I mean, go in slowly, come out slowly. Don’t come out in the first week back. I’m preaching, and I’m back, and I’m in charge and everything, no, come back very slowly.. Don’t come out in the first week back. I’m preaching and I’m back and I’m in charge and everything, no, come back very slowly, maybe make maybe don’t preach for like the first few weeks back. And you’re just back. Maybe you have time, the first week, and you come back slowly. And you’re asking a lot of questions. But don’t just jump right back in. And it’s still in it’s just like the, you know, it’s just like everything was like it was I mean, like when you left, you have to come back much more carefully. That’s just a few things.

Jason Daye
Yeah, those are all good. And that last point, I think there’s so much wisdom in that. If you, you know, if you come back, and you want to and you jump right back in. That’s not allowing you time to really sit with those who have been serving in your absence, and to hear their hearts and to kind of discover and uncover what God has been doing in your because we know that God’s at work even when we’re not there. You know, I mean, so I think that’s such a key point to say, hey, let’s find out, you know, yeah, maybe maybe I felt and sometimes on sabbaticals we feel like we’re on the mountain with God. Right? You know, it can feel like, you know, a Moses experience, and that we’re coming back down the mountain, you know, at this great word or whatever. But you have to realize that God was literally at work while you’re gone.

Jimmy Dodd
He gave a lot of people words, right,

Jason Daye
Right. Exactly. So I think that is such good advice, Jimmy awesome. Man, bro, this has been so helpful. Again, thank you so much for your kind of your openness, your vulnerability to, to share the highlights and you know, things that you got right things that you do differently, all of the all of those types of things. As we’re kind of closing down, I would love for you to share just some words of encouragement to pastors and ministry leaders who are watching along right now What words would you leave with them?

Jimmy Dodd
I would say that in the midst of a sabbatical and just like in the midst of ministry, just give yourself grace, you’re going to make mistakes, you’re going to do things that are wrong, you’re going to do things yourself, I blew my sabbatical. I didn’t do it well, I didn’t spend the right time doing the right things. Or I blew, my big day. No, I had some time off. And I just didn’t do it. But just give yourself grace. I just believe that we need to just be less hard on ourselves. Because I think that we can just beat ourselves up so easily. And say, Gosh, I could have done that better. What was I thinking? And because I want to be really, really, really gracious with my children. And I have to constantly say, You know what, I’m a pretty good dad, I love my kids. I would do anything for my kids. My kids make me so proud if they do anything. God is a better parent to me than I am to my own children. And why do I think that God is so harsh with me and I’m so gracious to my own children. God is a better parent to me than I am to my own children. And so I think that God wants to be kind to me and just very gracious to me, and I need to just receive that grace. And it’s hard sometimes because we live in a very much you performance driven world. But give yourself grace and know that God cares deeply for you.

Jason Daye
I love that, those great, great words of encouragement, brother, for those of you who are watching or listening along, we will have, as I said, the toolkit for this episode where we’ll dig in and pull out some of these insights that Jimmy shared, so you can hang on to them. And that way, whenever you’re planning your own sabbatical, you’ll have some guidance there. And but also some questions for you to work through personally. And also work through with the ministry team, at your local church. And you can find that at PastorServe.org/network, we also have some links in there to some of the resources to the retreat center, that that Jimmy went and yes, believe it or not spent three days of silence that and we’ll have those links and other resources there as well. So be sure to check that out at PastorServe.org/network. All right, brother, appreciate you love you so grateful for your leadership at PastorServe, and I’m excited for all that God has in store for us, as a team at PastorServe.

Jimmy Dodd
Great. Three, three great words.

Jason Daye
Yes.

Jimmy Dodd
Chiefs, Jayhawks, and Liverpool. That’s what I’m gonna end with.

Jason Daye
Okay. You just lost brother. Okay. It was awesome up until that moment. Thanks, Jimmy.

Jason Daye
All right, God bless you.

Jason Daye
Now, before you go, I want to remind you of an incredible free resource that our team puts together every single week to help you and your team dig more deeply and maximize the conversation that we just had. This is the weekly toolkit that we provide. And we understand that it’s one thing to listen or watch an episode, but it’s something entirely different to actually take what you’ve heard, what you’ve watched, what you’ve seen, and apply it to your life and to your ministry. You see, FrontStage BackStage is more than just a podcast or YouTube show about ministry leadership, we are a complete resource to help train you and your entire ministry team as you seek to grow and develop in life in ministry. Every single week, we provide a weekly toolkit which has all types of tools in it to help you do just that. Now you can find this at PastorServe.org/network. That’s PastorServe.org/network. And there you will find all of our shows, all of our episodes and all of our weekly toolkits. Now inside the toolkit are several tools including video links and audio links for you to share with your team. There are resource links to different resources and tools that were mentioned in the conversation, and several other tools, but the greatest thing is the ministry leaders growth guide. Our team pulls key insights and concepts from every conversation with our amazing guests. And then we also create engaging questions for you and your team to consider and process, providing space for you to reflect on how that episode’s topic relates to your unique context, at your local church, in your ministry and in your life. Now you can use these questions in your regular staff meetings to guide your conversation as you invest in the growth of your ministry leaders. You can find the weekly toolkit at PastorServe.org/network We encourage you to check out that free resource. Until next time, I’m Jason Daye encouraging you to love well, live well, and lead well. God bless.