Unity of the Church in Divisive Times : Brady Boyd

Jason Daye | , , , , , , ,

Unity of the Church in Divisive Times - Brady Boyd - 122 - FrontStage BackStage with Jason Daye

What are some practical ways we can move ourselves and our people toward unity in a world that is obsessed with division? In this week’s conversation on FrontStage BackStage, host Jason Daye is joined by Brady Boyd. Brady is the senior pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado. He’s the co-host of The Essential Church Podcast and has written a number of books, including his latest, entitled Life-Minded. Together, Brady and Jason look at both the importance and the challenge of unity in the church. Brady also shares some personal stories and practices that help you and your church embrace the beauty of Christ and demonstrate unity in the church.

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Additional Resource Links

www.north.newlifechurch.org – Explore Brady’s website to discover more about his ministry, church, book, upcoming events, and additional resources to support you on your faith journey.

Life-Minded: 8 Practices for Belonging to God and Each Other – In his book, Brady draws our attention to the reality of that text: it does take effort to stay unified with our spiritual family! Saying it like it is, but saying it with grace, Pastor Brady Boyd echoes Paul’s words in a contemporary context with 8 practical challenges to put peaceable unity into action. Accept the challenges by yourself or with others in a group, and experience the harmony God intended for His eternal church.

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Ministry Leaders Growth Guide

Key Insights and Concepts

  • The increasing division within our society, driven by secondary issues, underscores the need for renewed focus on unity and essential truths within the Church.
  • Social media’s targeted algorithms are amplifying biases and fostering echo chambers, leading to greater societal and relational divides.
  • The 20 and 30-something demographic is experiencing profound loneliness, despite being surrounded by people, highlighting the need for genuine relationships.
  • A daily, meaningful conversation can significantly improve mental health, suggesting the church has a unique opportunity to foster community and connection by simply being present and open, without needing elaborate programs.
  • Noble disagreements allow for deep connections despite differing opinions, promoting unity and respect within the church.
  • The breakdown in friendships over minor issues indicates a deeper problem within the church’s culture of care and respect.
  • The church should prioritize sound doctrine and its practical application in believers’ lives, both publicly and privately.
  • Anger has become a cheap and prevalent currency, yet true courage lies in maintaining kindness, self-control, and clear communication.
  • There is a critical need for the church to discern and distinguish between character and charisma, emphasizing the importance of integrity in leadership.
  • The Great Commission remains the church’s fundamental mission, calling for an invitational approach rather than antagonism towards the world.
  • Embracing curiosity and asking better questions can transform combative conversations into opportunities for deeper understanding and relationship.
  • Genuine relationships within the church are essential for spiritual growth and mental well-being, countering the effects of isolation.
  • Discernment, the ability to know and stand firm in the truth, is vital in navigating the noise and propaganda of modern culture.
  • The goal for believers should be Christ-likeness, growing more in love with Jesus over time, and reflecting His character in every aspect of life.

Questions for Reflection

  • How do I handle the frustration and division over secondary issues within my community? Am I contributing to unity or inadvertently fostering division?
  • In what ways have social media algorithms influenced my perceptions and biases? How can I counteract this influence to remain open and inclusive?
  • Am I actively seeking out and nurturing genuine relationships within my congregation, especially with those who might feel isolated or lonely?
  • How often do I engage in meaningful, face-to-face conversations with people in my church? What impact do these interactions have on my ministry and personal well-being?
  • What simple, practical steps can I take to be more present and available to my congregation, beyond traditional programs and services?
  • How do I approach disagreements within my ministry? Do I prioritize the relationship over the issue at hand? How can I improve in this area?
  • What steps am I taking to ensure that my friendships and relationships within the church are strong and nurturing? How can I protect and cherish these connections?
  • How do I balance the need for sound doctrine with the practical application of these teachings in my daily life and interactions with others?
  • Am I allowing anger or frustration with current political or social issues to influence my communication and leadership? How can I cultivate a more kind and even-tempered approach?
  • What measures do I have in place to ensure that my ministry prioritizes character over charisma? How am I fostering integrity within myself? Within our leadership team?
  • How committed am I to the Great Commission in my personal life and ministry? WHat is the evidence of my commitment? In what ways can I be more invitational and less antagonistic towards those outside the church?
  • Do I approach conversations with those who disagree with me with curiosity and a desire to understand their perspective? How can I improve my listening and questioning skills?
  • How can I better address the loneliness and isolation felt by the 20 and 30-something demographic in my church? What are we doing now to engage with this demographic? What specific actions can we take to build community for them?
  • How am I practicing discernment in my ministry and personal life? What strategies do I use to distinguish between truth and the noise of modern culture?
  • As I reflect on my ministry and personal journey, how am I growing in Christ-likeness? What steps am I taking to ensure I remain vibrant and faithful in my walk with Jesus as I age?
  • When I consider the idea of finishing well in ministry, what comes to mind? How am I building toward that reality? Are there changes I need to make now? If so, what?

Full-Text Transcript

What are some practical ways we can move ourselves and our people toward unity in a world that is obsessed with division?

Jason Daye
In this episode, I am joined by Brady Boyd. Brady is the senior pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado. He’s the co-host of The Essential Church Podcast and has written a number of books, including his latest, entitled Life-Minded. Together, Brady and I look at both the importance and the challenge of unity in the church. Brady also shares some personal stories and practices that help you and your church embrace the beauty of Christ and demonstrate unity in the church. Are you ready? Let’s go.

Jason Daye 
Hello friends and welcome to another insightful episode of Frontstage Backstage. I’m your host, Jason Daye. Each and every week I have the privilege and the honor of sitting down with a trusted ministry leader and we dive into a conversation, all in an effort to help you and pastors and ministry leaders just like you embrace healthy rhythms to help you thrive in both life and leadership. We are proud to be a part of the Pastor Serve Network and every single week, not only do we have a conversation, but our team also creates a toolkit that you and the team at your local church can use to dive more deeply into the conversation that we have. You can find that toolkit at PastorServe.org/network. There you’ll find a number of resources, including our Ministry Leaders Growth Guide. That growth guide includes some insights and some questions that you and your team can work through to help you wrestle with this topic and apply it to your local ministry. So be sure to check that out at PastorServe.org/network. At Pastor Serve we love walking alongside pastors and ministry leaders and we’d like to offer you a complimentary coaching session with one of our trusted ministry coaches. You can find more information about that at PastorServe.org/freesession. Now if you’re joining us on YouTube, please take a moment to give us a thumbs up and drop your name and the name of your church in the comments below. We love getting to our audience better and we will be praying for you and your ministry. Whether you’re joining us on YouTube or your favorite podcast platform, please be sure to subscribe or follow so you do not miss out on any of these great episodes. I’m excited about today’s conversation. At this time, I would like to welcome Brady Boyd to the show. Brady, welcome.

Brady Boyd 
Hey everybody. It’s good to be with you, Jason.

Jason Daye 
Yeah, so good to have you, Brady. I certainly appreciate you and your ministry. Brother, we are going to dive into a topic that is not a new topic, right? This is a conversation that the capital C church has been having for quite some time around the divisiveness that we see not only in the culture around us, but also some divisiveness that we see in the church itself, and a need for unity. You’ve invested a lot of energy, not just in a new resource, a new book and study that you’ve written called Life-Minded, but also just in your ministry as a whole, Brady. As I’ve witnessed and had the opportunity to see your ministry, this idea of unity has been really a big part of your faithful service to the church, both locally and globally. So super excited about this conversation. Brady, I’d love to get your thoughts on something real quickly here, as we look at this divisiveness in the world, this has been a conversation, and divisiveness within the church. This is a conversation, as I said, we’ve been having for a long time. It predates the pandemic. We were talking about this before that, but the pandemic really heightened that conversation I think about this disunity and this divisiveness. Here we are, four years beyond the outset of the pandemic, and we’re still having this conversation. So, Brady, I would love just to hear before we dive in more deeply, what are your thoughts on where we are just kind of generally as the church in addressing divisiveness? Are we moving forward? Are we falling backward? Are we kind of plateaued? What’s your take on that, Brady?

Brady Boyd 
Well, normally, I’m a glass-half-full kind of guy, but I don’t see a lot of evidence that we’re making progress right now. I think we’re more separated and divided over really secondary issues more than ever. I mean, it was one thing if we were arguing over the Trinity, the Nicene Creed, or some major philosophical difference, but we’re arguing over petty stuff, small stuff, and stuff that should not matter. Things that should not separate our friendships are separating our friendships. I think it’s a problem. I think there are two things that are playing out in front of us. I think social media has divided our country through targeted algorithms that are really affirming our biases. If you spend any time at all on Facebook, Instagram, X, or Twitter, whatever you want to call it, you know that you’re being targeted. I mean, it’s obvious that your biases, your preferences, the things that you care about are the things that you’re seeing in your feed and the things that you disagree with are being hidden from you. So it surprises all of us when we bump into a group of people who disagree with us. So I think that is a problem. I’m not trying to blame social media companies for all of this because obviously I have a personal responsibility for what I believe and what I see, and I think we need to own that. But it is true that the things that I am seeing on social media tend to drive me toward my biases and away from people who are different than me. We agree with that. But I also think there is a tremendous amount of isolation happening in the 20 and 30-something crowd, especially. I know even at my church in Colorado Springs, I’m hearing that consistently from the post-college, I call it the post-college pre-marriage group. So it’s some journey and post-education in college but they’re not married yet, and so they’re kind of in no man’s land as far as relationships, and that group tells me they are lonely. There is a inherent loneliness that is affecting our culture right now and it’s not because there’s not people. I mean, they’re surrounded by people, but they’re not surrounded by relationships. I just had a conversation with a mental health expert three days ago, and she says there is a tremendous rise in anxiety, depression, and all kinds of mental health disorders that really can be attributed to one thing. She said there’s one antidote to all of it, and that is relationships. Here’s what she said, If my clients, my patients, could just have a daily conversation with another human being that cared about them, most of their issues would go away. That’s the church, right? That’s who we are. So I just said to them, the church right now has this amazing opportunity to step into this space, this place where people are wrestling and struggling. We don’t have to come up with tricky new programs. We don’t have to come up with cool new music. All we have to do is be present. Be available. Open our homes. Meet them at a coffee shop. This is so simple and it’s low-hanging fruit. It’s one of the reasons I wrote the book. I’m just so concerned right now for how divided and separated we are and the long-term effects that it’s having on our mental health, our physical health, and our overall well-being, Jason. I think it’s a big problem.

Jason Daye 
Yeah, Brady, and I appreciate that. It’s so interesting in Life-Minded, your new book, you point this out. This idea of relationship is so critical, as you mentioned, to this idea of unity. Because how can we come together and rally around things if we’re not in relationship with one another? If we’re not seeking out to learn about one another, learn from one another, which is super important, and we’re going to get into some of those practices because you lay out some incredible practices that we can lean into. But before we go there, one of the things that you mentioned, Brady, in the book is that unity in the world will start with unity in the church. Which I think is a great premise. Makes perfect sense when we look at Scripture, when we think about things, and I love that. The challenge I have, and I think we all have, I’m sure you probably have this too, Brady, is that man, it feels like unity in the church is harder to come by these days, right? So help us, Brady, think through a little bit. What do you mean by unity in the church? Because I know you well enough to know you don’t mean uniformity, right? You mean unity. So help us understand what you mean by unity in the church and what are your hopes for the church moving in that direction.

Brady Boyd 
Well, I kind of coined a phrase. Kind of a mash-up of several things, but I think we need to learn to have noble disagreements. In other words, to not assume the worst from each other. We have this tendency to believe all the bad things about our enemies and we believe all the good things about our friends. I think in the church, it is okay to have honorable and noble disagreements over secondary issues. Now, obviously, we hold the line for our Orthodox beliefs. We believe that Christ is Lord. We believe he’s returning again in glory. We believe all the creeds. So all those substantive things, those bedrock issues, I’m not talking about compromising any of that. I’m talking about caring deeply about the people around you. I think that’s really what’s happened. The reason there’s not unity in the church is that we no longer care about friendships and we’re paying a price for that right now. I told someone the other day that it takes a long time to become old friends, and if you have an old friend, if you have a long-time friendship, you need to nurture that and cherish that and protect that. I’ll tell you one story. I was at a restaurant a few years ago with two friends, they’ve been my friends for over 20 years. We were sitting at this restaurant, it was late in the night, and there was a mom with her two kids sitting next to us, and we were the only ones in the restaurant. For two hours my two close friends and I talked about vaccines, politics, and racism, we talked about all the hot-button issues, and we fervently disagreed with one another on several of those issues, and we were going back and forth. We weren’t yelling at all because we’re close friends, we’ve known each other. But we were strong in our opinions back and forth, and it went on for a couple of hours over nachos, guacamole, and hot sauce. So it was an extra spicy conversation. So we get up to walk out of the restaurant, and this young mom says, Who are you guys? I said, Well, I’m a pastor from Colorado. This is my friend. He owns a business in Dallas, Fort Worth. This is my friend who owns some property nearby. We were there doing some hunting. It was during the hunting season. She goes, I have never heard three people disagree so well. Her language is really great. She said, I mean, those topics that y’all were talking about would have divided most of my friendships. She said, But you sat there and talked for two hours, and you’re walking out of here hugging and laughing with one another. She said I’ve never heard someone disagree so well. So I’ve been thinking about that conversation a lot. That happens a lot if you care deeply about the person you’re disagreeing with. So the person trumps, the person is more important than the issue, right? When we make issues more important than relationships, then that’s when the fussing, the fighting, and the vitriol happens. Jason, I just think we gotta get back to loving people, listening and asking better questions, and not assuming the worst about our enemies. I mean, there are evil people doing evil things. That’s absolutely true. Jason, I don’t have my head in the sand. I’m not naive. I’m not innocent. I understand there’s evil people doing evil things. But the vast majority of people are not evil people and they’re not doing evil things. They’re just going through their lives. They’re raising their families, going to work, or showing up. They’re trying to be a decent human being. I do believe that the vast majority of the people that I hang out with are doing the best they can with the information that they have. So with that in mind, I’m able then to ask better questions. To assume the best about them, to really invest myself in them, and not divide myself over secondary issues. I hope that makes sense. I know that’s a long answer to a short question.

Jason Daye 
No, that’s very good. That’s very helpful. Brady, as you’re talking through that, one of the things that I’m thinking about is this idea that many in the church are talking about this idea of taking a stand, right? There’s almost this defensive posture. I’d love to hear your thoughts because you touch on this in Life-Minded you really touch on this idea of taking a stand versus making an invitation. You talk about taste and see, right? You write about this in the book. Help us navigate that a bit because there’s been a lot of rhetoric within the church around this idea that we need to take a stand. We need to have this defensive posture. So I’d love to hear, how does that play into this idea of seeking unity and what that looks like for the church?

Brady Boyd 
Well, I understand what people are saying. They’re saying we need bold, honest, truthful, and convicting preaching out of the pulpit. We need to understand what the absolutes of our faith are. We need to be uncompromising with our sound doctrine and sound theology. I agree with all of that. I believe the church needs to get back to sound doctrine. We need to teach sound doctrine, and more importantly, we need to live out sound doctrine in our lives, our private and public lives, right? So I agree with all of that, and I think that’s what people mean by taking a stand. But listen, anger is cheap currency right now. Everyone’s angry. I had a guy come up to me at church the other day and go, Hey, we just need you to be bolder. I said, What are you talking about? I said, are you wanting me to be more angry? I just need to know that you care deeply about these issues. I said I could not care more than I care already. I have a deep, deep concern, I said, but it does not take any courage for me to get up and be angry right now. It actually takes more courage to be even-tempered, self-controlled, sober-minded, and clear with my communication. It actually takes more courage to be kind right now than to be angry. I said I’m actually trying to show you a revolutionary new way to address these very serious issues. I am completely concerned with some of the gender issues that are happening right now, the broken sexuality in our culture, the corruption in our politics, and all of those big issues that people are aggravated about. I understand it completely. But there’s a biblical way of addressing the issues of a culture, I think there’s a worldly way of doing it, and I think a lot of people are choosing the way of the world instead of the biblical way. Listen, you know what’s striking when you read the writings of Paul, Peter, James, and John? They were not as concerned about what was happening in Corinth as they were concerned about what was happening in the church in Corinth. In other words, we should be judging the church, not the people outside the church. The culture is a mess, and my end times theology says the world’s going to get darker and darker and the church is going to get purer and purer. I think that my concern is looking inside the church and helping my people stay on the narrow path of following Jesus and not be distracted by the brokenness of the world because the world’s going to get broken. They are broken. That’s what sin does to a culture. Sin breaks things down. Sin brings death. But we’re concerned with the purity of the church, the holiness of our people, the safety of our children, the sanctity of our marriages, that’s what I’m concerned about. So for me to get up and bark at lost people and bark at the darkness does not make any impact on the darkness. In other words, I know this is going to sound super radical, but I actually think the Great Commission is still our assignment. I mean, I think we’re still supposed to go into all the world and preach the gospel. I think we’re supposed to love sinners, be concerned about sinners, welcome sinners, have meals with sinners, and make sure that we’re welcoming people into the family of God, not driving them away by being unnecessarily antagonistic. I see a lot of antagonism, and a lot of you know, why are you picking a fight? I mean, people are not my enemy. They just are not. I’m just tired of these fights. I had a guy one time tell me, he left my church, and he said, You know, I just need to go to a church. This is exactly what he said. I need to go to a church that defends the Constitution. I went, Well, I mean, I appreciate that I live in the United States. I appreciate the writers of the Constitution. I think they did a pretty good job, pretty good document. I enjoy it. I enjoy the benefits of it. But I said, so six days a week you have podcasts and cable news on your house it sounds like. I said, How about one hour? Maybe an hour and 15 if I go along with my sermon. But for an hour and 15 minutes of your life during the week, come to this building, and let’s celebrate, worship, and learn about Jesus. Then if you want to go back out for the rest of your Sunday and dive back into the vitriol of politics and the ugliness of the culture, great. But can you set aside one hour and let me, as your pastor, tell you about Jesus? I said it actually will make the rest of your week go better. He did not hear me. Ended up leaving the church. I was sad because he was an older guy. He should know better. He’s been in the church for 40 years, but somewhere along the way, he decided that being angry and being upset was more noble than following Jesus, in my opinion. It makes me sad because I hear that story all over the country from all my pastor friends.

Jason Daye 
Yeah. That’s definitely something that’s unfortunately becoming more common, Brady, in the church. So let’s shift gears a little bit, or actually, we’re going to build upon what you just shared there. This idea of, how can we build these important positive things into our people in our local churches? What are some of those practices? In Life-Minded, your most recent book, you lean into these practices that can help us and lead us toward unity and pull us away from, as you said, the way the world wants us to approach things, but pull us to the way that Jesus calls us to approach things. So what are some of these practices, Brady, that you’ve identified that can help us to do just that?

Brady Boyd 
Well, there are two that I really want to talk about. One is being curious. Getting back to a place of curiosity, like asking better questions. So I’ve been, in the book I talk about how to have an honest conversation with someone that disagrees with you. I have these conversations all the time with believers and non-believers, they’re seekers, they’re on some kind of journey, spiritual journey, and I bump into them, but they have radically different political beliefs or radically different social beliefs than I have. So instead of getting into an argument with them, I’ve never won someone to the Lord by out-arguing them or winning an argument. So the goal is not to win an argument. That’s not the goal. The goal is to win over someone’s soul, their heart, and their mind. So here’s a question I’ve been asking. So they’ll get into an argument with me and they’re trying to pick a fight with me, I’ll say, Hey, tell me when this issue became so important to you. Tell me at what moment in your life caused this issue to become so important to you. I’d love to hear why this particular topic, you’re obviously very passionate about it. Tell me how that happened. At what point in your life did this become important? What series of events happen? It automatically disarms them because I’m not there to argue. I’m actually there to learn how they got to this place. How did you land upon this particular belief system? What event in your life caused you? They’ll start talking and what happens is, it’s no longer a combative conversation, it’s a curious conversation. Because I really am interested in how people land on certain beliefs and what happened in their lives that causes them to believe something that I know for sure is wrong. It’s not biblical, it’s not godly, it’s not right, but they really do believe it. So it’s a way to be curious with each other. It’s a way to really hear people’s story. Now, listen, I know this is not going to be a popular thing because people want to know how to fight well. I’m talking about how to love well and how to care deeply for another human being, to see them as humans and not as enemies. They have the Imago Dei, the image of God, on their life and while they may be very broken, they may be a long way from the Lord. They may actually be antagonistic against Christians or against churches. I still believe that if the gospel is not for everyone, it’s not for anyone. In other words, I do believe the Gospel is powerful, it still saves people, and it still rescues people out of darkness and brings them into His marvelous light. I still believe that. I’m seeing that. Just a few months ago, we had 419 baptisms in a single weekend at New Life church. Now I’m not saying that to impress people with numbers. I’m not that guy. But I am saying that to tell pastors that the harvest is indeed ripe. There are people. I can tell you some of them, I know a lot of the stories of the people that went into that water, and a year ago they were broken. They were antagonistic. They were affirming everything that I’m against. Some of them were very angry against the church and somehow the Holy Spirit gripped their hearts, Jesus became real to them, and they entered into the waters of baptism in front of our entire church. Over 400 baptisms in a single weekend. It was the most miraculous thing I’ve ever seen. So in an age and a time where we think that people are running away from God, I have proof to tell people actually, if we will actually tell them about Jesus, act like Jesus, and present Jesus to them. People are hungry for Jesus right now, but the problem is they’re going to the church and they’re hearing the same thing that they’re hearing out in the world. I think the church should be the radical new message right now. Come to church and hear about good news. Something radically different than the world is offering you. I just want to encourage pastors and leaders to get back to simple preaching, convicting preaching, kind preaching, tell the truth with love, and give people an opportunity to say yes to Jesus, because he is still winning souls out there. I’m just telling you, it’s amazing what I’m seeing around the world and around the country right now, there are salvations at an unprecedented level. As the world’s getting darker, the church is becoming more invitational to people and I believe it with all my heart.

Jason Daye 
I love that, Brady. Just so you know, I love the fact that you brought up the curiosity because in my notes after reading the book, Curiosity is one of the ones I wanted to make sure we talked about. So I love that idea of the curiosity, the engaging with people. I love that question that you pose, instead of getting baited into an argument turn it and ask a question that’s going to move from that, as you said, combative conversation to a curious conversation. Absolutely love that, Brady. So what are some other practices that you would encourage us as pastors and ministry leaders to practice ourselves and then also to help encourage our people to practice in their lives if we’re looking to move toward unity?

Brady Boyd 
Well, one of my favorite chapters that I wrote in this book is the chapter on discernment. I talk about how to have clear eyes, a clear mind, and a clear heart. How can you know the truth? How can you see through the fog of social media? How can you really put your feet on the rock who is Christ Jesus? When the winds and the rains beat against your house nothing moves you or shakes you. That is a product of discernment. I have two adult children now. My son is 25 and my daughter is 23. I think probably since they were two or three years old this has been a big issue. I talked to them about discernment and about how to block off the noise. I said, you’re being influenced. You’re being corrupted in some cases. So how can we, as godly people, tune our ears and fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and the perfecter of our faith? So I talk in this chapter about discernment, the ability to know the truth, and the ability to see through all of the hysteria and propaganda in many cases. We are being propagandized. We are being influenced and so I have a great concern right now for my church and for the church at large. Can we spot wolves? Do we understand when bad doctrine is being taught to us? Do we know the difference? Listen to this, Jason. Do we know the difference between character and charisma? I think there is a huge deficit right now in character. We’re seeing a lack of character in a lot of our church leaders that’s being exposed globally and obviously here nationally. I’ve just been concerned for many years now that we are buying into charisma and charm, and we’re not able to discern rightly if someone has good character, and are they teaching sound doctrine or are they just really entertaining? There are a lot of really talented communicators that are on platforms right now, but I don’t know, it doesn’t feel good to me. It doesn’t look like sound doctrine. It doesn’t sound like sound doctrine. I just want our people, listen, when you’re looking for a church, do not go to the church that spends so much of their time attracting you. Go to a church where they’re telling you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear. That is the church where you put your feet down. If you can go to a church where the pastor is standing on that stage, standing in that pulpit, telling you what you need to hear, challenging some of your core, and challenging some of your behaviors. He or she is doing it in a kind way, a gentle way, someone who loves you, someone who knows you, someone who is genuinely concerned for you, your family, and your friends, and is willing to tell you the truth at the expense of aggravating you sometimes. Listen, if you’re not leaving church a little aggravated from time to time, then you’re not in a good church because you need to leave with a conviction. People are coming to church because they want to be inspired, and I agree with all that. I think church should be inspirational. I think church should be encouraging. But if it’s not challenging you, if you’re not feeling any ounce of conviction, then you have gathered around yourself teachers who are telling you what you want to hear. I’m not in the pulpit trying to pick a fight. But the gospel is somewhat offensive quite honestly. It’s offending our worldview. Your worldview should be offended by the gospel. Yeah, I think that’s the kind of church I want to lead. I want to be a part of the church like that. The men and women who preach in my church, we talk about this every single week together, we study together, we’re looking at the scriptures together, and we tell each other, hey, is this going to challenge our people? Is this going to convict our people? Is this going to help our people grow up? Is it going to snap them out of the malaise that we all find ourselves in? Is it going to help them follow Jesus? That’s the question, and that all boils down to discernment and really taking that seriously. So that chapter that I write in Life-Minded on discernment. I actually re-read it yesterday again because I just said I need to read that. I need to read my own book and make sure that I’m following what I wrote. So I just reminded myself of that chapter again yesterday and want to make sure I stay dialed in.

Jason Daye 
That’s excellent. I love that. I love that discernment and that whole idea of, as you said, we live in a lot of echo chambers throughout the week, right? Because of the way that the world works now, the algorithms are feeding us those things that we want to hear, we tend to listen to the people who reaffirm what we already believe, and we just fall into those traps. So the discernment piece is so important and having a church that is willing to not just be another echo chamber, but is willing to preach the gospel in love and compassion I think is so vital. So I absolutely love that. Now in Life-Minded, Brady, you kind of wrap it up with, and I love this section, this idea of legacy, which I think is something that isn’t talked about enough, honestly, this idea of legacy. We often get caught up in present-day stuff. How are we living? What does that look like? But the legacy that we leave is so vitally important. So how does this idea of moving toward unity, how does this idea of practicing these important things relate to legacy?

Brady Boyd 
Yeah, I mean, I think all of us should have the same goal. We want to get to the end of our lives, and we want to love our spouse well, and we want our kids to respect us and admire us. If we are fortunate enough to have grandchildren, we want to have our grandchildren admire us and respect us, and we want to be faithful with the calling that God put on our lives. That’s really, at the end of our life, all we’re responsible for doing is loving our spouse well, being a good friend to people around us, loving and cherishing our children and grandchildren, and being faithful with the calling and the responsibility that God gave us. I’m 57 years old right now, so I know I’m in the fourth quarter of my ministry. I hope I get an overtime. Maybe get a little extra time. But regardless of that, I want to get to the end of my life and be a really good human being. I want to laugh when I’m supposed to laugh. I want to tell a good joke. I want to laugh at a good joke. I want to cry when I’m supposed to cry. In other words, I want to feel everything. I don’t want to get to the end of my life and be cynical, uncaring, or to be really shut off from the human emotions that make life worth living. I want to feel the life that’s around me. I want to get to stay steady. I want to stay steadfast. I talk about stay surrendered, stay steady, and stay strong. I talk about that in the book. About finishing strong. Finishing well. Listen, I look around the church landscape right now, and there’s just not a lot of spiritual moms and dads. They’re getting into their 60s and 70s, and they’re vibrant. They are worshipers. They are prayerful. When you’re around a saint, a 60, 70, or 80-year-old person who has had 40 or 50 years of worship and prayer, there is a physical appearance. There is a holiness about their life that is so intoxicating and I want to be that person. I want to get into my 60s, into my 70s, and, by God’s grace, into my 80s, and still be vibrant in my prayer life. I want to be a worshiper of Jesus. I want my heart to be clean at the end. I want to navigate these turbulent waters and not let it corrupt my soul. That’s the goal. That’s what legacy means to me. It’s getting to the end of your life and being more in love with Jesus than you were in your 20s and your 30s. This is the goal for every believer, becoming more and more like Jesus as we get older. I think that’s the goal for me. I want to be the old guy in the lobby of the church telling old-guy jokes. I want to be that granddad. I want to be the grandpa of the church. I know I’ve got one good lap left to get to that spot and I want to finish well. I want to keep my integrity. I want to make sure I guard the character of my soul. Make sure what I’m seeing, what I’m hearing, and what I’m believing goes through the lens of Jesus. I just want all of that for the pastors and leaders that are listening. That should be all of our goals. Not to be famous. Not to be an influencer. None of that stuff. All that’s secondary. If that happens, great. The goal, though, is Christ-likeness. The goal is following Jesus. Keep our eyes focused on the person of Jesus, the character of Jesus, the presence of Jesus, and that, honestly, will be enough at the end of our days.

Jason Daye 
Man, love that. Good word, Brady. Brady, as we wind down, I would love to give you an opportunity to just provide some words of encouragement to pastors and ministry leaders, our brothers and sisters who are serving.

Brady Boyd 
Can I just read a passage of scripture out of Romans then? Can I just can I just end there? This is out of Romans 12. I got my glasses on, my old-guy glasses, so I can read here. But listen to this. Just give me two minutes to read this scripture to you. Romans 12. “Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil. Cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor serving the Lord. Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, and faithful in prayer. Share with the Lord’s people who are in need and practice hospitality.” Romans 12. What a charge. What a mandate from the scriptures to live out the teachings of Jesus in a beautiful way. Jason, you model this. I’ve known you for a lot of years. I appreciate the way you follow Jesus, and I pray that today’s podcast is stirring someone right now. Maybe snapping us back to attention and getting back to the real thing that we’re called to do, and that is to tell people about the goodness of Jesus. So, Jason, thanks for having me on today. I hope everybody gets a chance to look at this as Life-Minded. Let me give you a 10-second pitch. There’s a Bible study that I wrote to go with the book and inside are nine full-length videos. There’s a QR code, and I did 12-18 minute really well-produced videos that go along it that’s inside the Bible study. So it’s perfect for your small group, your Bible study, or just for your private study. So I really encourage people to pick it up. I worked really hard. It’s probably the hardest I’ve ever worked on a book project. I felt the spiritual battle as I was writing it because this is a topic we have to talk about and we have to address if we’re going to fulfill the Great Commission, in my opinion.

Jason Daye 
Absolutely, brother, absolutely.  I love it and Like-Minded, I read the book. It’s incredible. I love the resource that you have, the small group resource, and the Bible study, along with that. For those of you who are watching or listening along, you can find the links. We’ll have those included in our toolkit for this episode. PastorServe.org/network. We’ll have links to the book, to the Bible study, and to Pastor Brady, so you can connect with him as well. So thank you so much, Brady, for hanging out with us today. Love you, brother. Appreciate you. Thank you for all the good work that you’re doing.

Brady Boyd 
Love you too, Jason, good to hear from you. Always a pleasure to have conversations with you.

Jason Daye 
All right. God bless. Thank you, my friend.

Brady Boyd 
Take care.

Jason Daye
Now, before you go, I want to remind you of an incredible free resource that our team puts together every single week to help you and your team dig more deeply and maximize the conversation that we just had. This is the weekly toolkit that we provide. And we understand that it’s one thing to listen or watch an episode, but it’s something entirely different to actually take what you’ve heard, what you’ve watched, what you’ve seen, and apply it to your life and to your ministry. You see, FrontStage BackStage is more than just a podcast or YouTube show about ministry leadership, we are a complete resource to help train you and your entire ministry team as you seek to grow and develop in life in ministry. Every single week, we provide a weekly toolkit which has all types of tools in it to help you do just that. Now you can find this at PastorServe.org/network. That’s PastorServe.org/network. And there you will find all of our shows, all of our episodes and all of our weekly toolkits. Now inside the toolkit are several tools including video links and audio links for you to share with your team. There are resource links to different resources and tools that were mentioned in the conversation, and several other tools, but the greatest thing is the ministry leaders growth guide. Our team pulls key insights and concepts from every conversation with our amazing guests. And then we also create engaging questions for you and your team to consider and process, providing space for you to reflect on how that episode’s topic relates to your unique context, at your local church, in your ministry and in your life. Now you can use these questions in your regular staff meetings to guide your conversation as you invest in the growth of your ministry leaders. You can find the weekly toolkit at PastorServe.org/network We encourage you to check out that free resource. Until next time, I’m Jason Daye encouraging you to love well, live well, and lead well. God bless.

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